The longest distance I’ve done is Olympic. I’ve been training continuously even throughout the winter since 2009. Since October I’ve been training for my first marathon in May, using the high frequency Hanson plan (50-80K/week 6 days/week). I am not missing any of the scheduled runs. I swim three times a week (2700m x 3), and will cycle one 100K on the weekend and some short distances during the week, totalling less than 30K.
Would I be ready for an Ironman this summer on such a light cycling and swimming schedule? Or do I need to put in more cycling? Ready means finishing in 12-13 hours. I can finish an Olympic in 2:40.
More detailed answer is that you need to bike a lot more. With that little biking you will be walking most of the marathon. That means longer than 12-13 hours. Your run and swim training is already sufficient.
And why not try a half ironman first. No need to jump all the way up.
Depends on the course but much more cycling will help you reach a 12-13hr. finish. The bike is the most critical part of the Ironman - you typically spend more than 60% of the total race time on the bike. If you’re not ready to bike 180km confidently then your run will suffer terribly and your time goals will be shot.
as the other guy said, no, and because biking, and also because apples and oranges:
There really isn’t a “—>” between marathon and Ironman, not a natural progression or even an unnatural progression. No link. IM marathon and regular marathon are extremely dissimilar, despite being the same distance. With no bike fitness, you’ll be walking the marathon, regardless of how “fit” of a runner you are. With good bike fitness, you’ll be just running along, vs. moving pretty quickly in an open marathon.
Ironman is tricky… it’s not even a straightforward leap from HIM to IM… the IM is only 2x as long on paper but is still a very different race, 4x as hard perhaps. People underestimate this.
You could conceivably do very well at an Ironman with only 9k of swimming and only running 50k over 6x days per week ala the Hansons or BarryP on this board, but you’d need to up your biking much more, perhaps double what you’re doing now.
I will disagree with the naysayers to an extent, but there are too many variables to say directly yay or nay.
I think a lot would depend on exactly when in May your marathon is and when in summer the IM is.Swimming doesn’t sound to be a problem, but the bike may be an issue.
An early May marathon and a late August/early Sept IM might just give you enough time to recover from the marathon and build enough time on the bike to get to 13hrs if the course isn’t too difficult.
Late May marathon and June/July IM would be a lot less likely.
Other variables include what your background is, e.g. what is your marathon target, are you already comfortable able to do 100 mile rides ?
Is the marathon your A race, or are you looking at it more as a training run, and the time between the marathon and Ironman.
What Ironman are you aiming for? I’ve done Coeur d’alene after a marathon at end of May, and one in August after the same may marathon.
For the June Ironman, I adjusted my marathon training schedule. With 3 runs per week and 3 bikes per week, and 1-2 swims per week. I treated the marathon just as a long training run.
For the August Ironman I trained more specifically for the marathon with 2 bikes a week, 4 runs a week, and 1 swim a week, and then after the race I decreased my running mileage significantly and focused on the bike. That season I focused on 2 separate A races.
In my opinion you’ll need to Bike way more, and can probably get by with less swimming.
Keep in mind, if you’re under trained for the bike, by the time you get off you’re legs and body will be totally dead for the run and you’ll end up walking.
The longest distance I’ve done is Olympic. I’ve been training continuously even throughout the winter since 2009. Since October I’ve been training for my first marathon in May, using the high frequency Hanson plan (50-80K/week 6 days/week). I am not missing any of the scheduled runs. I swim three times a week (2700m x 3), and will cycle one 100K on the weekend and some short distances during the week, totalling less than 30K.
Would I be ready for an Ironman this summer on such a light cycling and swimming schedule? Or do I need to put in more cycling? Ready means finishing in 12-13 hours. I can finish an Olympic in 2:40.
Thank you.
I hate to go up against Eric but I’m not sure I agree with him. if you’ve been training since 2009 you must have some good bike miles in your legs but i’m afraid i have no idea what a 240 oly means as i’ve only ever done 1 sprint and a number of HIM and IM. I do agree that HIM and IM are very different animals. I’m currently only riding 3 times a week myself - short (40km) during the week and 60 and 90 on the weekend (so right now I’m only doing 190k/week). each ride has 1 hour of SST though (at 80%). i’m also only swimming about as much as you though i keep trying for 10k a week. my goal is to break 13 hours this year. my riding will get ramped up in a few months though to 4x week and longer distances on the weekends (120+ and 60+)
You could finish by the 17 hour mark if you dial your effort back, but a 12-13 hour finish based off of a 2:40 Oly is probably not going to happen.
Could you explain this logic a little more? What would you expect coming off a 2:40 olympic?
With the little experience I have (one IM), I agree with others that you must bike more. I decided to do my first IM about 13 weeks before the race date. I had completed my first HIM about two weeks earlier and did not meet my expectations. I attributed it to lack of bike training and not planning nutrition well. I went on a 12-week bike heavy plan for IM. I had some luck on race day and everything went nearly perfect.
Ok, I will go against the grain. I say yes. A 2:40 oly should get you into the 12-13 hr range. Depends on your recovery from the marathon and how long after till your IM. If its a 14 week window. Yes. Drop to 3 runs go to 3 bikes, one long, one tempo, and another, depending on recovery. If training for 4 years you have the fitness base. You are probably looking at a 6:30 bike for 13 or less IM. With what you are swimming a 10-12 week build of 3 swims a week up to 5k a swim, swim should be fine. If you recover well, you will be able to build back up to distance on the run. …So 2 week recovery, with longer bikes, easy. Then 9-10 week build then 2 week taper. My 2 cents after doing 6 IM’s in the 12 hr range with sprinkled marathons in same season
First, thanks all for the thoughtful and helpful replies.
The marathon is early May, and the Ironman is late July. I never wanted to do a marathon, but someone encouraged me to try it, and running is my worst “skill.” I’m going all out for the marathon, because I want it to be my last, dreaming of a BQ time (I am fairly old, so I have to run a 3:55). My early numbers are looking good for my goal. I also didn’t think I’d want to do an Ironman, but since I’m doing ridiculous hours training for the marathon and am also swimming quite a bit (for me), I figure I might as well do just one Ironman.
Cycling is my best discipline. I cycle quite a bit, outdoors through the winter. From the replies, and remembering what it felt like to do a 140 km Fondo, I realize that it will be difficult on so little training. I know I should increase it, but I thought I might be able to manage the following numbers on my current abilities:
Swim: 1.5 hours (easy pace for me is 2:10/100m)
Cycle: 7.2 hours (at 25 kph average–previous races being only 40 km I averaged 33-34 kph)
Run: 4.5 hours (standalone is around 4 hours)
This works out to 13.2 hours, plus transitions. I’m sure I must come off as being rather clueless (!) and underestimating the effect of fatigue on my numbers…
Maybe I can jump on the trainer to maintain my cycling.
At this point, I don’t want to do a Half Iron. I previously thought I’d never want to do a distance longer than Olympic. I figure I should go right to the Ironman since I’m spending so many hours on running, and it’s not like I’ll ever want to train for a marathon again! I mean, this is ridiculously difficult! I don’t know how the rest of you manage to train for the Ironman. Just training for the marathon is taking up so much of my time.
" ** I’m going all out for the marathon**, because I want it to be my last, dreaming of a BQ time (I am fairly old, so I have to run a 3:55). My early numbers are looking good for my goal. I also didn’t think I’d want to do an Ironman, but since I’m doing ridiculous hours training for the marathon and am also swimming quite a bit (for me), I figure I might as well do just one Ironman.
Run: 4.5 hours (standalone is around 4 hours)
This works out to 13.2 hours, plus transitions. I’m sure I must come off as being rather clueless (!) and underestimating the effect of fatigue on my numbers…
I figure I should go right to the Ironman since I’m spending so many hours on running, and it’s not like I’ll ever want to train for a marathon again! I mean, this is ridiculously difficult! I don’t know how the rest of you manage to train for the Ironman. Just training for the marathon is taking up so much of my time.
You simply don’t know what you don’t know yet. First, you are NOT training very much for your marathon. You are only running 30 to 48 miles per week so if that is taking a “ridiculous number of hours” … you are either running too slow or have unrealistic expectations marathon training. You will have a hard time BQing on such minimal mileage. I am a marathoner and I suggest to you that the first of anything, especially a marathon, is a learning experience … not something you have mastered. So, so many things you likely don’t even understand that will impact you … from nutrition to hydration to physical fatigue to mental fatigue to shoes and equipment to late hills to nagging injuries. Then there is the largest variable of all that you don’t control … the weather. Heck, most people wear too much clothing in their first marathon … unless it is warm … and in that case your chances of BQing diminish greatly. Holding marathon pace for almost 4 hours is simply damn difficult. Marathons don’t lie. They tell you in no uncertain terms if you have enough miles on your legs. Can you do a long run … say 20 miles at 8:50 pace? If not, you will not BQ. Yeah, I know your BQ pace is 8:58 … but you will run more than 26.2 when it is all said and done … so in an actual race you have to run below your mathematical BQ pace. Just one more thing you probably don’t know … yet. So you run your first miles at MP and everything seems easy, sustainable. What you don’t know is what it feels like at mile 20 … to hold MP when every aspect of your body is screaming to back off … or to walk.
Open marathons and IM marathons … have very little in common other than the distance. In an IM marathon you will have been exerting yourself for 8 to 9 hours before you even start the marathon. To think you are going to run your first IM marathon only a little over 1 min/mile slower than you “dream” you can run your first open marathon? Yeah, your clueless comment was dead on here. I don’t think you will.
This weekend a friend of mine that I have run dozens of marathons with … he ran a 100 mile trail run in less than 24 hours. I tell you that to show the endurance he has. He runs an open marathon in 3:15 … but his best IM marathon is 4:30 … almost 3 mins/mile slower. I know many good marathoners who can’t do the IM marathon that fast. The effect of a full day of exertion prior to starting the IM marathon is HUGE. Like I said, I think you don’t know what you don’t know and I doubt you will … until you have done either.
My marathon training is following the Advanced Hanson Plan to the letter. I wasn’t aware the program was considered minimal mileage. The quoted mileage did not include the speed/strength workouts which are not counted in the book toward weekly mileage. Maybe I should be re-evaluating which plan I’m using?
And I admit to being clueless, which is why I am posting for responses. I appreciate your sincerity, but maybe not your delivery
M: Rest
T: 9 miles, easy pace
W: 12 mile workout
T: 9 miles, easy pace
F: 12 mile workout
S: 9 mile, easy pace
S: Long run, alternate weeks of 16 miles and 20 miles
66 -70 miles per week
Workouts consist of things like mile repeats, progression runs, 2 x 20 tempo sets and marathon pace runs.
