Doing my first stand alone marathon this year. I still want to bike with friends and such throughout the summer, so I’m not going to follow the run plan exactly until about 12 weeks out from the race.
My thought is to run 3-4x per week instead of 6, and try to get close to the recommended mileage each week. Will do one long, one easy/recovery and one tempo-ish/track type workout. Likely that I’ll bike 2-3 times per week (one long on the weekend and not sure on the other rides)
It got me wondering if there is any type of formula to convert bike time or miles to run time or miles to help me fully decide how to modify my run training during this time.
As background, I am a solid runner (top 5-10% most 70.3’s) but maybe its still a bad idea???
This sounds ok to me – kind of just sounds like you’ll be doing 70.3 training instead of marathon training until the last 12 weeks. That should give you a good base & allow you to enjoy the summer. I wouldn’t feel pressured to get in the planned mileage in less sessions. Just trust that the biking is also giving you some fitness. Dk the exact conversion but over 2:1, maybe closer to 3:1. 60:00 of biking = 20:00-30:00 of running. Frequency is important with running. Maybe try to get to 5 days/week by adding in a short weekly brick (easy 20:00-30:00).
Depending on your history with running, be really careful ramping up mileage in those last twelve weeks. Maybe you’re the type of person who can make big mileage jumps without injury but if you’re not it’sa good opportunity to feel great and add a bunch of work that hurts you. To that end, I wouldn’t count the bike mileage at all, just know that it’s helping your overall aerobic fitness.
yeah, thats why i wanted to try to stay at least close to the miles prescribed as time goes on so its not a huge jump in mileage starting at 12 weeks out. my other goal was not to feel like i was overscheduled and just enjoy the process of improving fitness without the “have to do this” mentality.
i was also asking because I was just curious about if anyone has considered some type of formula especially when it comes to injuries (such a stress fracture) where you cant run but can still bike and swim. The 2:1 seems right to me, but i’m certain someone smarter has studied written on this.
I trained 4x a week in my last open Mary build up, with swimming 2x and biking 3x a week in there. I was doing really great until a non training related complication hit me. Granted, it was my 2nd time through the cycle, but it was going good. I used the Easy Interval Method, and following that plan, I would do a long run every other week, and a long bike ride in the in between weeks. I like the plan a lot and will resume as soon as I am able.
I wouldn’t try to get all the miles in 3-4 runs vs 6. The benefit of 6 is you give yourself some easy / short runs … just acknowledge that you’ll get 20-40% less miles while you’re cycling as much.
12 weeks is plenty of time for a solid marathon block. You’ll do fine
I think I’d focus before your 12 month build on just getting your body used to running as many times a week as you can (instead of 3-4, maybe 4-5… or maybe 6 once in awhile), even if some of these are short brick runs.
i’ve done similar a few times and am currently 4 weeks out in such a build. i think for a triathlete it is a good way to reduce the injury risk while getting a high aerobic load. you lose the running specific adaptation but gain more aerobically than you could from running only as the volume you can do on the bike would break anyone running only. as such, its not necessarily appropriate to match the cycling with the running it is replacing - if you want a formula then TSS does that in terms of aerobic load but take advantage of the fact that you can probably tolerate a higher aerobic load than what a pure running program would do where the impact damage is a limiting factor
the best advice was given to you a little up the thread… dont try to get the millage of 6 run into 4. The bike and swim training will count as training load and compond with the running load.
dont worrie about the overall milage and trying to keep up…just keep rolling with this balance training and slowly let go of the bike as you get closer to the race and replace that with running.
Exactly – I wouldn’t be worried about a jump in running volume when you start your running specific block with 12 weeks to go because you’ve been supplementing that. You’ll cut the cycling sessions for running sessions. If you’re doing more running volume that you’re used to in less sessions, with the biking, then that’s what could lead to an injury.
Doing my first stand alone marathon this year. I still want to bike with friends and such throughout the summer, so I’m not going to follow the run plan exactly until about 12 weeks out from the race.
My thought is to run 3-4x per week instead of 6, and try to get close to the recommended mileage each week. Will do one long, one easy/recovery and one tempo-ish/track type workout. Likely that I’ll bike 2-3 times per week (one long on the weekend and not sure on the other rides)
It got me wondering if there is any type of formula to convert bike time or miles to run time or miles to help me fully decide how to modify my run training during this time.
As background, I am a solid runner (top 5-10% most 70.3’s) but maybe its still a bad idea???
Thanks for any input.
I have done this kinda thing (a 70.3 training but with the added running mileage to hit 42-45 mpw) a couple of times. I am also a decent runner for my age. My Boston 2023 build was like this, etc.
The results were mixed - I generally feel that I underperformed using this training approach. The thing I didn’t like the most was that I felt great throughout the first 18-20 miles of both marathons but the bottom has dropped off right after, mainly in the quads. And I have been going by power, so it wasn’t like I just went out too hard.
All in all - I’d rather just run going forward, with maybe a swim here and there for recovery purposes.
For my last marathon I did 2 bike rides with 5 runs. I broke it down this way:
Monday - Easy Run
Tuesday - Hard Trainer Ride + easy short run off bike
Wednesday - Easy Run
Thursday - Tempo Run
Friday - Off
Saturday - Long bike (typically 2-4 hours)
Sunday - Long run.
I dropped the bike rides about 13 weeks out to build mileage from 30 to 50. During that build, I was actually training considerably less hours because I was adding a 25 minutes to running per week but cutting out 3-5 hours of biking. I also moved to running both Saturday and Sunday and resting on Monday and Friday. Definitely don’t think… “I’m replacing my 4 hour bike with a 1.5 hour run so that’ll be fine.” You’ll end up injured if you don’t build just off your running volume. Cycling will build your aerobic base, but you need the pounding to prepare you for the running volume.
Overall I was pretty happy with the result but it definitely wasn’t my full potential.
I had this outline going into Boston this year with St George a couple weeks later. I used the guys at Scientific Triathlon to create a plan for me and thought it was great. I ran 4x per week + 1 short brick run as Boston (and St George) got closer.
I didn’t run my fastest marathon but I did negative split the course and qualify for next year. My typical week was in the mid to high 30 mile range with a peak of 45, I think. I ran two 18 mile long runs as my longest, around 2.5 hours. Broadly my weeks were a tempo run, a long run, and a couple easy-ish runs.
I’ve trained for marathons a lot of different ways and really enjoyed the low mileage of this one.
I think I’ll take the pounding and get the miles in as much as I can over 5-6 runs even if that means doing one off the bike. I want to do well as this is my first marathon and dont want to look back regret not run training as I should have.
Whatever I can bike, I will, and just consider that joyful training that shouldn’t hurt. (I was originally fearful of overtraining but it should be fine)
Doing my first stand alone marathon this year. I still want to bike with friends and such throughout the summer, so I’m not going to follow the run plan exactly until about 12 weeks out from the race.
My thought is to run 3-4x per week instead of 6, and try to get close to the recommended mileage each week. Will do one long, one easy/recovery and one tempo-ish/track type workout. Likely that I’ll bike 2-3 times per week (one long on the weekend and not sure on the other rides)
It got me wondering if there is any type of formula to convert bike time or miles to run time or miles to help me fully decide how to modify my run training during this time.
As background, I am a solid runner (top 5-10% most 70.3’s) but maybe its still a bad idea???
Thanks for any input.
Don’t get too caught up in the “recommended mileage”. Just focus on your key workouts and your overall training volume. There are three key runs. Speed work, Tempo work, and Long runs. You can get by on three run workouts a week. I have done marathons on around of 20 miles a week when I was on the bike for 5 hours a week and swimming 2 hours a week too.
With cycling in the mix there are two ways you can do your Long Run.
First, is that you can do the tradition running plan where you build up to 22 mile runs. The other way is you can cap your long runs to 2-1/2 hours and instead build up your long rides to 3-4 hours (make it a little longer than your goal time for the marathon). With the long ride your goal is to keep your HR at your target HR pace for you marathon. If you do the 22 mile runs then you can follow any generic marathon plan for that. If you cap the run at 2-1/2 hours you do a slow build up to 2-1/2 hours then you drop your time back down 15-20 minutes and add in tempo work in the last half of the run. Do the tempo work slightly faster than your goal pace for the marathon with the goal of building your time at Marathon pace each week (i.e. 3x8’ @ Marathon pace one week, then 2x15’ @ Marathon pace, then 4 x 9’ @ marathon pace, etc.) You can fill the other days with bike rides or recovery runs. I personally do two bike rides a week that are about 20 miles long that get my HR up. I also will either do a brick run off the bike or a recover run to get a little more time on me feet in. I also do two swims a week so it is busy. I find that get plenty of volume with all the cycling and swimming so I don’t need over do it with run volume.
If I were to do a pure run plan I would peak at about 50 miles a week (500 TSS). When I am doing multisports training for a Marathon I run 20-25 miles a week, cycle 70-90 miles a week, and swim for 5,000-7,000 yds a week (700 TSS). I race better on the fewer miles and higher TSS.
Thanks. This is exactly what I had in mind when I created this post, knowing its possible. You articulated it better than the mess that was rolling around in my head. This plan can totally work, but is probably best within the framework of doing/training for a multisport event (which I am not this year).
Since this is my first marathon and not training for any triathlons, I’m gonna go the traditional marathon training route starting at about 16 weeks out instead of 12 like I originally thought. I’m just gonna add in 1-3 bike rides per week just to be social with friends. I’ll be mindful of TSS overload. I’ll likely cut out biking at the end of July and spend the last 12 weeks focused on the run (with maybe a ride here and there during those 12 weeks).
Some year I’ll plan to do a marathon while focused on tri racing just to see how I can do on the 26 while on a multi-sport training plan.
Thanks to everyone who replied, all of the insights were helpful in clearing my mind to decide on how to proceed. Its funny because the last few years while multi-sport training many of my friends (mostly cyclists) were not racing any events so they just rode for fitness sake and not structured plans or workouts. This year they are all training for something and we are not lining up our group rides very easily. SMH. They’ll all be done in mid-August and back to normal group rides, while I’ll be focused on running and not as able/willing to ride with them which was my whole rationale for taking this approach this year.
PS - As an AOS, I’m gonna be in trouble next year when I get back to swimming. I decided to take a full year off, not only cause I dislike swimming, but it just frees up so much time to do other things (training and personal stuff)
I came to Triathlon from 30+ year background of competitive runnings. I tried doing the running plans for Marathon for two years with a goal to get under 3-hours. The best I was able to do in was 3:14 which was 4 minutes over BQ time for me. I gave up on Marathon and moved to other things but ten years later my brother was doing a Marathon and invited me and two of my siblings to run it with him. It was 7 days after my “A-Race” 70.3 Triathlon. I figured I could just train for the Triathlon and probably finish the marathon off that training. The only change I did from my 70.3 plan was to add 20% to my long runs. I was surprised to run a 3:19 (still 4 minutes over my BQ time since I was 10 years older) so I decided to experiment a bit with things. My next Marathon I followed the 18-week Run-Less-Run-Faster plan from the Furman Institute along with two 60’ bike rides on the bike trainer and 90’ outdoor bike ride every week and two hour-long swim session. At that race I did a 2:54 on a hot day which was good enough for first place over all master. After that I experiments with some open half marathons and did a 1:17 at my last half to break my 1:22 PR that I see 15 years ago when I was running 50 miles a week. I increase my swimming and cycling when I am training for running events and It works better than increasing my run miles to get to that higher training volume. Good luck with your training.