MAF Volume - how much is enough?

Triathlon Forum
1

I read Phil Maffetone’s book and website, and a lot of the pros/cons of the approach. I’m thinking of giving it a try this off-season, however, it’s really unclear what a training plan using the Maf method would be. Dr. Phil goes out of his way to explain that he is NOT going to give training plans or workouts. Not sure why - it kinds of leaves the reader with my question.

So for those of you who have tried it, what’s the run volume target that worked for you, in terms of miles per week? Or do you include super slowmo swimming and biking too in the total volume, so you don’t have to run 70 mi/wk? It seems that for many who claim the Maf method doesn’t work, they either have very low volume or don’t stick with it for too long.

Thanks
SS

2

Ideally the target volume would eventually be your upper tolerable limit.

I was doing maybe…40-50mpw back in college when I did MAF training for about half a year and cut :58 off per mile for my 5 mile MAF Test at ~150avg hr.

3

I read Phil Maffetone’s book and website, and a lot of the pros/cons of the approach. I’m thinking of giving it a try this off-season, however, it’s really unclear what a training plan using the Maf method would be. Dr. Phil goes out of his way to explain that he is NOT going to give training plans or workouts. Not sure why - it kinds of leaves the reader with my question.

So for those of you who have tried it, what’s the run volume target that worked for you, in terms of miles per week? Or do you include super slowmo swimming and biking too in the total volume, so you don’t have to run 70 mi/wk? It seems that for many who claim the Maf method doesn’t work, they either have very low volume or don’t stick with it for too long.

Thanks
SS

Phil is an advisor to my wife. For his program to work… You have to be willing to try it for more than a month or so… The idea is long term gains, not so much short term. I have coached athletes using his “style” in sort, and the ones that did not get frustrated, made very big improvements.

He doesn’t believe that any athlete should need a “structured” training program. They should be able to listen to their body and heart rate monitor feedback, and decide the type of training load that they want to do daily…As you get fitter, you can go longer, and keep seeing gains… Which is very hard for any athlete, but works for very few. I think people react better with a more flexible structure, but still a structure.

I do believe his methods work well though, for those that are able to stick through with it. The athletes I have coached tend to get very frustrated with running/biking at a speed which they feel is way too slow and they give up before they see any real results… If you do enough time strictly at your “MAF”. you will begin to see gains at that heart rate, but during the base period, you cannot “cheat” and go over that cap. If you do it for long enough (for some up to a year) runs/rides will start to feel difficult at that heart rate and you will be going much faster, that is a sign it is time to switch to anaerobic work… Does that make sense? The whole point is to get your body learning to use primarily fat for fuel, he believes that when you go over your “MAF” your fat burning ability shuts off, or is dramatically hindered for sometimes up to days. He believes you should not need to incorporate speed work into your training until you are 8-12 weeks out from your race, then at that point you need much less speed than the average person believes… How much clearly depends on the athletes fitness… The more aerobically fit, the more your body can handle the “speed” when it comes time.

That’s my interp from what I have spoke with him. I am rambling, so hopefully that makes sense?

4

Isn’t the MAF test the way to track improvement? Build mileage until your MAF test results stop improving or start to decline, then decide whether you need to reduce the mileage or add intensity.

5

Well you would do ALL your volume at MAF efforts. If you normally do 8 hours per week in November then it’s hours of MAF.

You asked about other sports - I think the MAF folks would say that you do all sports following the same principles. Though I have never heard of any tri or swim coaches using MAF specifically, though the idea of base building is certainly practiced in swimming. The thing you have to figure out is how to lay your technique work onto MAF effort, longer intervals or continuous work.

Well I take that back, I found a book from a guy in New Zealand who uses those techniques and enjoys his success. But looking at his workouts, I don’t know how he keeps swimmers, lots of very long swims 15 minutes or longer.

6

I’ve been on it for 9 weeks now, training for my first IM. My program calls for a moderate run (HR < 147), tempo (<152) and long (<152).
First few weeks I’ve had to slow down at least 1 min / mi to stay in the prescribed zone. Each week I got a little faster and after 6-7 weeks I was back to my previous paces. All in all I dropped 1:10 of my pace in the moderate run and about as much in the tempo and long runs while increasing volume each week (my longest run is 2:30 now). So while I didn’t make any significant net speed gains I did drop about 20 bpms off my HR at those paces. The immediate gain I’ve seen is in my ability to recover and handle large volume (for me). I’ve been averaging 16-18h/week for 9 weeks straight now; I feel great and I can reach my targets in each workout so far.

The bike was much easier to adapt to because when I started I could push around 75% FTP at my MAF HR which is what I plan for my IM bike leg. I did improve there as well and now I can push around 88-90% FTP in my tempo rides and keep my HR below 152 for up to 1h30m. My FTP is probably higher too but I didn’t retest yet.

I will start speed work 8 weeks before my race and hopefully I’ll make it through this in good health. I’m following the Smart Triathlon Training plan (previously Mark Allen Online).

7

Thanks for all the posts – all very helpful. For those who have tried it, it seems like the idea is to run as much as you like so long as your HR<=Maf. in other words, in terms of target workout time, if your HR starts to creep up and you can’t take going slower any longer, that’s it for the day.

Related: Maf writes that he thinks his method will help build joints/connective tissue strength. However, running slow to me is a heavier plod with more time spent on each footstrike. Do you find it’s easier on the body and recover faster?

SS

8

I did a lot of treadmill running except for my long run which I do outside in the heat. I did it precisely so I can track my pace and make sure there are no factors such as heat, cold or humidity that can affect my HR and every run is done in similar conditions. It’s also very easy to control HR on the treadmill by going faster or slower. If your HR creeps up you slow down. The point is to complete the entire workout without going over your max. I also tracked how long it takes once I reach my cruising pace before I have to slow down the treadmill by .1 mph to stay in the zone. In the beginning I didn’t last more than 20 min under 147 and now that point has moved towards the 1h mark. All my workouts are by time not mileage. It’s a little frustrating at first, I started to hear my Garmin’s HR alert chime in my sleep but I just wanted to give the thing an honest try and followed the whole philosophy to a tee. It does take a lot of discipline.

I found it easy to ramp up volume safely because I did slow down a little and very easily went back up in pace and time.I went from 20-23 mpw to about 35 now over the course of 9 weeks. I don’t know if the low HR thing is a factor or not but I don’t feel nearly as wiped out as I did before training much lower volume. Running slow can feel like it’s more impact but I guess you could try to increase your cadence a little bit and see if it helps. I think going over a certain distance just plain hurts no matter the HR. For me that point used to be 9mi now it’s closer to 14. I guess that tolerance to the pounding just increases with time spent running.

9

So for those of you who have tried it, what’s the run volume target that worked for you, in terms of miles per week? Or do you include super slowmo swimming and biking too in the total volume, so you don’t have to run 70 mi/wk?
SS

Track all your MAF volume together because aerobic efficiency is the key focus, but test MAF progress in the each sport separately. Once you stop improving MAF pace in a sport (tests similar or decline over 2-4 weeks) start including other stimulus to make further gains and target your race goals. You can gradually transition into a more interval heavy program, boost your lactate threshold/tolerance and even circle back to more MAF training for an ultra endurance event.

10

MAF is 180- age +/- 5 bpm. Your max HR is normally different for each sport due to different body position and “other”. Then there is DNA differences. Your fat burning capabilities do not turn on-off at a certain (MAF) number. One could obtain threshold values and create HR zones to work in that would/could be similar to the MAF program. How much depends upon you.