New Bike course this year, with a 3.5 mile, 1000’ vertical climb we get to do 2X. We get to do the Hill Previously Known as the Devil Hill 1X but we get to go down it as opposed to up. To get an idea of this year’s climbs compared to the previous course, check out (you may have to click (turn elevation on):
Last year’s big climb is the descent just after mile 25…looks pretty wimpy. It would be interesting to compare people’s splits for the big climb the first time they go up it at ~mile 6 and the second time at ~mile 28. I would imagine most people will go tear-assing up it the first time…not so much the second. New pavement on rte 3A as of this week should be pretty nice.
2010 Ironman 70.3 Mooseman-Swim Waves
Wave No # Time Division Cap Color
1 7:00 Pro M Silver
2 7:02 Pro W Dayglow Pink
3 7:10 M 29 & Under Orange
4 7:14 M 35-39 Blue
5 7:18 M 45-54 Yellow
6 7:22 M 40-44 Green
7 7:26 Men 30-34, Men 55+ Powder Blue
8 7:30 W 34 & Under, W 50+ Red
9 7:34 W 35-49 White
I think I like the swim wave format of sending the Women off after the Men, although if it were me I would put more than 4 minutes between M40-44 and M30-34. That’s a lot of testosterone on the road pretty close together.
Dev, I know you were lamenting the lack of smack talk in previous threads. I think a lot of it has to do with us youngsters in the 40-44 AG respecting their elders now that you are in the Fogey divison. Looks like you’ll get a 4 minute head start, so I’ll have most of the bike leg to think of something encouraging to say before I catch you. No way you are sprinting down the finisher’s chute to try and wreck my finisher’s photo this year.
The swim waves look pretty good, although I do agree that a greater than 4 minute spacing between waves would be better to minimize congestion as fast swimmers from later waves catch up to slower swimmers from earlier waves. A six minute spacing would be better. The BIG hill at mile 6 and mile 28 should keep drafting to a minimum. I read that there are sections of that hill that are up to 15% grade. Is that what you heard? Pacing is going to be key. Hit that hill hard on the first loop when you are fresh and you will probably pay for it on the run. I will do what I can to keep my wattage at or just above threshold for that hill, however, that may be difficult when the grade is >10%. Definitely not a PR course. A LOT of time will be lost climbing that hill on each loop. The hill at miles 21 and 43 may be a lot smaller, but it does appear to be steeper (looks to be ~350’ vertical climb in less than half a mile - which would average around a 13% grade). This will be no picnic either. At least there is a good 10 miles or so to try to recover after the last significant hill before starting the run.
Does anybody have an elevation map of the run course?
Gmaps makes the run course look a lot more uppy-downy than it actually is. The first 1.75 miles are flat along the lake, and then there is a short (1 minute or less) hill where you gain about 100’ I would guess. You definitely work going up it, but once over the top you have about .75 miles of downhill to the turnaround. After the turnaround you have to go up a short (50 yds) but very steep hill that is like climbing stairs, and then a gradual climb for .75 miles that is not bad, then down the hill back to the lake where it is flat for the final 1.75 miles back to the race. Rinse and repeat. It is actually a relatively fast course, and probably about .1 miles short. I’m usually within ~3 minutes of my open open half time. Last year’s 2nd place finisher Dereck Treadwell ran 1:10:32…
I wonder how many athletes are going to show up with a standard crank and 12-25 cassette not realising that the bike course has changed from previous years.
I’m sitting in my office eating greasy pizza, 4 lbs overweight and you make this posting about 2x1000 ft climbs over 7 miles…not quite like riding 3500 ft of Whiteface over 8 miles, but still enough to make me stop eating that pizza!
While I like this wave spacing “better”, I just means that I will get stuck trying to pass a whack of testosterone in the M20-29 and M35-39 who start ahead of me.
Have you seen the effect when a guy with 45 on the calf passes a guy with 25 on the calf? You’d swear these guys feel like they are getting Chicked and suddenly they are riding your speed, even though you are literally 4-8 minutes ahead of them!!!
As for wrecking your finisher picture, if you do the run you are capable of and I do the run I am capable of, then it would be perfect for again wrecking your finisher picture. If you have another implosion run, then you don’t have to worry about me wrecking your picture, because hopefully I am ahead due to wave separation!
I’m wondering if I should put the 27 on. At Wildflower with 34x25 @ 65 RPM I had to ride at 260-280W on Nasty Grade out of the saddle. If I wanted to ride lower wattage, I would have needed to ride at 55-60 RPM. 1000 ft over 3.5miles is 5% average. I’d imagine that there are grades in there that are 6-9% to make the 5% average.
Scott are you racing the Early Bird 500m/30K/5K tri tomorrow?
I’ll be one of the guys with 29 on his calf that you’ll be passing but no worries on trying to keep up! Coming from a swimming background am used to going backwards through the field for the rest of the race and am not going to sabotage my run by putting in spurts on the bike to keep up with every older folk/woman that goes past. But I do see plenty who behave exactly as you say. Was second age grouper out of the water (not overall due to wave starts - v similar in order to Mooseman) at St Croix and then all the other waves started going past from the Beast onwards…
Haven’t had a good run yet in a half ironman so need to nail my pacing down on the bike. Plus, have been choosing the more undulating/scenic bike courses to gain some bike strength and avoid all the drafting I hear about.
The climb at 6 and 28 is pretty awesome. The best part is at the end (about the last 1/2 mile), MapMyRide puts the peak grade at 20% and averages it at about 10%.
I obtained a new max (bike) heart rate going up the second time around.
At least it’s followed by some blistering down hill.
The hill on Rt. 3 is a pretty good climb too. Good to hear there will be new paving though, some parts were pretty bad along that stretch.
I polished off the pizza and the 20% grade should drive in enough to go on the starvation program from now till race day.
Between Mooseman on June 6th, Whiteface climb on June 11th and IM France on June 27th the weight need to come off and the 27 tooth needs to go on big time!
Dev, I will be doing the 500m/30km/5km race tomorrow. This time you can line up behind me on the swim instead of the other way around. Hopefully I can keep you from passing me before we get to T1
Taking a look at the bike profile, I would say that almost all of the 1000 ft elevation change is pretty much within 3 miles. I will definitely be putting a 27 on. Unfortunately I never did get my compact crank to work well with my P2C due to chain rubbing so have been using a standard crank since Muskoka 70.3 last September. I am in the process of switching back to the compact, however, I plan on using a 36 tooth small ring instead of 34 tooth. This should eliminate the chain rub. I am hoping that a 36/27 will allow me to keep the wattage on the big climb around my FTP. I am sure that there will be some sections, especially on the smaller but steeper hill that is further along the loop, that I will have to go over this target. I have done sufficient cycling in the GATS well above FTP followed by transition runs to know that I can safely go over FTP without killing my admittedly pathetic run - BUT that 1000’ hill is much longer and has steeper grades in it than anthing the GATS has to offer. BTW, I have heard that the grade exceeds 15% in some places - check out the shorter hill further along the loop, it must average around 13%.
Oh crap - 20%. How do I lose 15 lbs in two weeks so I can get down to a Dev approved weight? Maybe I will have to keep the 34 tooth ring on after all and just put up with chain rub. I just changed the target completion time for the bike from 2:35 to 3:45
I am in and will be there. Been injured all winter after Canada (Back Injury). Gotta see what 6 weeks of running and 2 months of biking will do for my fitness. Goal is for the race not to be my slowest HIM beat ~5:15 which is gonna be a big ask.
Still haven’t booked accomodation anyone got any recommends for family of 4?
You guys are freaking me out. I have always done Mooseman and Timberman with a 12-23 so I thought I would have to switch to a 12-25 for this year now you guys are wondering if 12-27 is enough. I have to decide soon since I still have to buy a new casette since I don’t own anything more than 12-23 (that is currently compatible anyway).
What gearing is your crankset? Without having actually ridden the new course, I would think that unless your W/kg is well over 4 you are going to want a compact crank plus a 27 on the back. The good news is that there is a lot of time to recover after the big hill on the second loop before starting the run.
For reference what have you used on Devil’s Hill in the past?
I did Mt. Washington (about 8M @12%) in a 39/28, back in the day. Of course, in addition to no longer being in “back in the day” shape I didn’t have to run after that effort.
