Is it necessary to do longer swims than 4000m when the training focus is for the IM-distance? I do longer than 4000m, but will I benefint from that sort of sessions? I’m not sure, that’s why I’m asking the question… Probably individual, but it would be interesting to get some ideas from other athletes.
/CE
Okay, I’ll ask…how fast are you? Serious Q.
If you’re humming along at sub-50 then you can do whatever the hell you like…just don’t waste your time asking here.
If you’re floundering at 1:20+ then you need to seriously re-think how you go about your “longest swim”.
So…how fast?
Definitily not the first alternative, for now I’m doing the IM-swim at 1:20 in the pool (no flip turns) and that’s not with race-pace, just distance swimming.
/CE
This is my opinion only, I’m not a real fast swimmer but swam 1:06 at IMMoo
3 to 4 swims a week totaling near 10,000 yards untill you get 6 weeks away from your race. Never sets longer than 500 yards unless you are in open water.
5 weeks of 4 swimes a week totaling at least 12,000 yards with sets no longer than 300 yards unless in open water.
Adjust your swim volume as necessary around your abilities and other training.
jaretj
I have my athletes swim a 5k set or up to 90’ 1x per week if training for IM. If they are in the 1:10 range, then a 4k straight 1x per week is on the program. I like the 5k set b/c its a mind bender to most people and gets them over the hump of thinking that 4k is long. The straight swimming is great as well - I’ve seen a lot of improvement from my athletes using that as well. Of course you have to mix it up to your strengths and weaknesses, but I’ve seen 1:15 swimmers turn into 1:0x swimmers with these workouts.
Jaret - this is how I used to swim and honestly I think this is the minimum if you are a 1:00 swimmer and plan on staying there. If you are slower then 1:05, then tack on 4k straight and even 5k 1x per week. And I actually only have my athletes swim sets shorter than 500 yds 1x per week. A bit different then how your coach or Masters coach does it, but there are many ways to skin a cat. 
I think 80% of the weekly swimming should be straight swimming. If you asked me this same question a year ago, I would have agreed with you, but every season I re-think things and I’ve seen some great results from straight swimming. One of my favorite sets now is 3k straight: 1k swim, 1k with pull buoy, 1k with pull buoy and paddles. Its done aerobically and we track the time each week to see the improvement. 4k straight 1x per week is the norm, and then one day of 5x600 (main set) with short rest. Then one day of very fast swimming - 50s and 75s. I am sure in 12-24 months, I’ll have a different opinion, but that’s what it takes to get people faster; constantly changing it up and re-thinking how you do things.
Jaret - this is how I used to swim and honestly I think this is the minimum if you are a 1:00 swimmer and plan on staying there. If you are slower then 1:05, then tack on 4k straight and even 5k 1x per week. And I actually only have my athletes swim sets shorter than 500 yds 1x per week. A bit different then how your coach or Masters coach does it, but there are many ways to skin a cat. I think 80% of the weekly swimming should be straight swimming. If you asked me this same question a year ago, I would have agreed with you, but every season I re-think things and I’ve seen some great results from straight swimming. One of my favorite sets now is 3k straight: 1k swim, 1k with pull buoy, 1k with pull buoy and paddles. Its done aerobically and we track the time each week to see the improvement. 4k straight 1x per week is the norm, and then one day of 5x600 (main set) with short rest. Then one day of very fast swimming - 50s and 75s. I am sure in 12-24 months, I’ll have a different opinion, but that’s what it takes to get people faster; constantly changing it up and re-thinking how you do things.
Good advice Mike, It makes sense to me this approach. i was coached last year for my first full and I had elaborate workouts. This year i consulted a friend of mine who is a coach that I meet in australia. She told me to just swim 3 times a week with one day of sprints. Her workouts were similar to yours and consist of long swims. I kinda like doing a 500 or 1,000 yard warm up followed by a nice long 2000 to 3000 straight swim, then a cool down. I am not fast per say or a very good kicker which is something I would like to work on.
Have a good day!, Scott
Thanks mate. 1k warm up and into 2-3k straight - just keep rolling after the warm up
See ya in AZ
thanx! Im sure i will have a better swim in AZ then in the monsoon that was CDA last year!
I also feel that it is the minimum but I didn’t want to scare the guy away. I know I could get to 1 hour if I put more time in the pool.
We just have differing opinions on the long stuff though but I’m willing to try it out and see how it works for me. As you know I am an OK swimmer and really like to work on it. Having a girlfriend that is a swimmer really gets me in the pool a lot.
Last summer I had to set priorities on my training and I just couldn’t physically handle 5+ hours of swimming week in and week out and still be able to put down what I felt was the appropriate bike and run training time.
I seem to be on the 200 to 500 meter binge right now cuz it’s working for me and sometimes I feel what works for me should work for everyone else. Sorry to be short sighted.
edit: I’m only doing Half’s again this year so not really sure how far to go now but I’m planning to stick to my plan of 200 to 500 for a while. I’m actually using the workouts from Matt Fitzgerald’s book right now.
jaretj
My PB is 49:30
Once a year have a Swim week… swim every day.
Swim 3x/week all year round
Incorporate and extra weekly 10x400m swim 10-15 weeks out from IM
Do a 4000m swim eery month
That’s about it.
I always get a kick out of the lengths that people will go to improve their time on the bike by a couple of minutes. But then have many people turn around and not spend the time required in the pool. Unless you’re going sub 1:00, then you should be spending the time in the pool, doing laps WITH flip turns. If you want to improve on your IM time, work on the swim. Join a good club, or get a coach and put in the time. You will be surprised at how quickly your times will improve, and how that will put you in a better spot going into T1. But then again that’s just my opinion.
Jaret - you aren’t being short sighted - if it works then stick with it! How do you know it’s working is my question? Have you done a 2k TT in the pool? There is nothing wrong with 200s and 500s, and when doing half IM racing, I do mostly 200 reps up to a 4k set - like 20x200 on 3:00 - with a pb to simulate body position w/ a wetsuit. Being able to crank out 4k like that, allows the athletes to absolutely crush the 2k HIM swim and stand up not feeling any worse for wear.
If you can get the 3k swims down to 45’, which I think you can, that’s 1.5 hours. Then 1 4k swim at 65’, and 1x 5k swim at 90’ = 4:05 of swimming for the week. I just saved you 90’ of training time. 
So, yeah, the faster you swim the quicker you get it done. You’ll get there, you are a hard worker.
I’ve had really solid improvements in my times from my masters meets.
Just recently I took my 400 meter times down from: 6:30 a year ago to 6:13 a month ago to 5:57 last sunday
Also my 1500 time came down from 25:12 last year to 24:07. While I never had an 800 time before last sunday, my converted 1000 yard time from last year’s state meet was 12:44 and I just swam a 12:07 on sunday.
I really feel that these improvements will translate to my open water swimming too.
I see your point about how you can get more volume in with straight swims.
jaretj
Lately I’ve been able to bring my 200 meter repeats in on 3:15 and leave on 3:30 with no problems and my 100’s in on 1:35 leaving on 1:45.
It sure is different swimming meters than yards
jaretj
Those are definitely solid improvements - don’t be afraid to TT a 2k - just to see. Swimming hard for 12 minutes is different than hard swimming for 30’. Keep up the hard work, it will pay off.
I’ve done 2 IM’s. The ONLY swimming I did prior to the race was 3 swims of 3 miles at a steady pace. My times for the 2 races were for the swim were 76 min and 78 min. I don’t swim except when I race.
Thanks Mike, I’ll try it and see how they do. It’s just getting so close to state meet right now that I’m afraid to change much. It’s hard to know if I’m getting faster because of what I’m doing or despite what I’m doing.
jaretj
Gotcha! If the State Meet is your A Race for the year you should focus on it.
I appreciate your opinion and it is just that but I have to say personally I think the time spent on the bike and running is WAY more important than time in the pool. In looking at the 2007 IMAZ results there was not one person that finished the swim in under 1:00 (maybe you mean sub 1:00 per 100 meters??). Anyway 1/3 (~500) of the finishers finished in 1:10 or under so I would say that is a good swim goal. Personally I will be happy with anything under 1:20 and I really don’t put a lot of time in the pool. I started my swim training at the begining on Feb and average 3 swims a week and 10K yds a week. Starting last Friday I will do a 1:00-1:30 open water swim every Friday. Who knows maybe I’ll do better than 1:20…
Anyway my point is I have put most of my time in the bike and the run and I will easily make up the 10-20 minutes on the bike. I have put a lot of time into my bike training so I can (should) average 21+ on the IM course which will put me in the top 75 bike times (from 2007). The average bike time of those 500 sub 1:10 swim times had an AVERAGE bike time of 6:02. So I SHOULD beat those sub 1:10 swim people off the bike by 40 minutes. This is just my analysis, correct me if you think differently.
To answer the primary question I did my first 4 weeks at 3 swims a week @ 3K/3K/4K doing sets of 500. Starting last week (5 weeks out) I started doing sets of the following 500/1000/40minutes. Then like I mentioned I will do 1-2 open water swims a week for 1:00-1:30.