I am training for IM CDA and have questions about swimming long.
For the last 7 months I have been swimming 3x per week with monthly totals around 24k yds. Tuedays and Thursdays are with a Master’s Group and Sundays by myself. Our Master’s Group rarely swims sets longer than 100yds, so on Sundays I have been working on 300 and 400 yd sets, but no more than ~2,500yds total. Being as I am just under 13 weeks from the IM it is time to increase yardage. I am torn between adding yardage to my Sunday Swim as it is the same day as my long run vs showing up 1/2 hour early for my Tuesday Master Swim and doing a continuous swim until class starts. The only other option is to add a swim on Monday which is currently a rest day. The benefit is that I would be swimming a 4th time each week, but I wouldn’t want to swim long Monday with Master’s on Tuesday. The negative is that I am losing my rest day.
swim monday… longer pull set. dosnt have to be hard.
your rest day become a active recovery day. It s very important to invest the time and energy into your swimming because that can mean 20-30min faster on the bike…and same on the run…
I wouldn’t worry as much about your total volume. I would focus on getting in the pool more frequently. If you can swing 3 hard workouts a week and then add in two recovery days of between 1000-2000, you’ll experience a big increase in “feel” for the water. Also, if you are a relatively new swimmer, focus on shorter, faster sets and pay attention to how fast you can swim 100 repeats. Essentially, focus on going fast while you hold better more efficient technique.
Add more Sunday, Tuesday, and the extra swim on Monday if you can. More = more!
Adding yardage after a long run won’t hurt. You may be tired, but when is that not the case with training? If you swim extra on Tuesday, don’t just swim continuous. Kick, use the band, do a small pull set. Make the time worth while.
You recover really quickly from swimming. Even a long swim on Monday and masters on Tuesday should not be a problem.
It’s not like running and cycling.
If I read you correctly, you are doing 12 workouts/month for a total of 24k?
If your Sunday is 2500, then you are averaging only 1750 per Masters workout?
Rather than more workouts, I would advise adding 500-1000 per workout.
Should only take 15-30 minutes more per workout.
Your existing workouts seem fairly short.
Schlepping yourself to and from the pool more often will surely use up more time than that.
Discuss with your Masters Coach your desires and needs for more work.
I think you should try to improve your density in the sessions. For masters it is hard since you dont control the sessions but try to do some extra before and after.
What I mean with density is that you should minimize your rest but still swim hard. 15 seconds is enough between even very hard repeats when you get into it. It is supposed to be more of a mental break than a metabolic break in your muscles.
I achieve this by doing most of my workout on a send off interval that is pretty tough, I use my ez pace for this time (1:40/100m). So a workout can be: 4x(300@5 minutes, 2x150@2:30, 3x100@1:40) for a total of 3600 hard meters and all in an hour. With a 5 min warmup and 5 min cooldown thats 4000m in 70 minutes. For aerobic fitness it is way more valuable than 4000m in say 90 or even 100 minutes.
If I read you correctly, you are doing 12 workouts/month for a total of 24k?
If your Sunday is 2500, then you are averaging only 1750 per Masters workout?
Rather than more workouts, I would advise adding 500-1000 per workout.
Should only take 15-30 minutes more per workout.
Your existing workouts seem fairly short.
+1 1750 yds/hr is probably a LOT of hanging onto the wall. Shorten the time between sets and work your main set up to at least 1500. This will discourage wasted time. I see a lot of triathletes at my pool with a huge list for a workout which results in a lot of non-swim time.
My N=1 is that I always swim better the day after a workout, i.e. the first practice after a rest day I generally swim worse. The second practice of a double usually feels great. Add swimming wherever you can, it won’t beat you up and you should be able to run fine after a long swim. I am never able to do the reverse though, I tend to cramp in the pool if I run first.
re: yardage, our workouts usually average 2800-3000 (SCM) per hour, which is about 3100-3300 yards, and that’s with time to gab between sets, drills, kick sets, etc. The slowest lane in masters gets about 2000m per hour.
Thanks everyone for the input. I plan to incorporate a lot of your ideas. I decided to start swimming on my rest day (Monday) as well as continue to swim on Sunday before my long run and Tuesday with Masters. What I found interesting from the comments I received is that no one seems to suggest doing a workout where you swim continuously for an hour or more. I always assumed that would help me build confidence and stamina for the IM. However I am seeing that I should focus on maintaining speed and form for as many 100’s or 200’s as I can, multiple times per week? For example I usually swim 1:45-1:50 per 100 but have been doing 100’s on 2:00. As soon as my times fall to 1:55 I set my interval to 2:10 to get my times back to 1:50. Yesterday I was able to swim 10 100’s on 2:00 and then did another 5 on 2:10. Total workout was 2200 with my warmup and cool down. Ultimately I will be happy to swim 2:00/100yd for the IM.
What I found interesting from the comments I received is that no one seems to suggest doing a workout where you swim continuously for an hour or more.
No, because it’s boring as hell, and you get very little feedback on pacing. However, it isn’t a bad idea to do one or two long continuous swims as a test set and confidence builder sometime during the leadup to your IM, maybe 6-8 weeks out, so you can get a gauge for pacing and if there is anything specific you need to work on. My “continuous”, I mean if you have someone on deck who can take splits for you, swim it straight. Otherwise, break it up into 300’s or 400’s with 5 secs rest, and keep track of your splits during the swim.
I always read your contributions with a great deal of interest. Question: I have a reasonably good idea of how to structure a hard workout (I sometimes swim with a masters group or sometimes do my own workout, typically in the 2200-5000yds range). To your suggestion of doing 3 relatively hard workouts and two easy sessions of 1000-2000yds, what is the typical structure of an easy session? (e.g. 100s at low intensity, easy drill work, swim at pace and take longer rests, etc.?). Many thanks.
I use volume certainly as a metric when designing a workout, but it is typically a secondary one to what I want to accomplish in that training set.
When I chimed in on your post, I was responding very generally to a how best to structure a week of training. An easy session should have structure. I give the people I coach a standard warm-up set of 2000. It starts out with some general warm up swimming, followed by some choice 50s to focus on drill work, kicking, swimming, etc and then a descend set to get the heart rate up a little. But the most important thing aspect is that you just get in and swim. You want to keep the feel for the water.
I hope this helps and if you have any questions, please let me know.
3x per week and <10k/week is nice for non-fishes. Most everyone else will benefit from more swimming. It’s still good training load, and taking away from running time (and resting your legs) or combining a run/swim together to save time isn’t a bad strategy.
I’m a “near fish” and wouldn’t want to do an IM on 24k/month unless I was a terrible runner and needed that volume more or I was trying to do IM on 12 hours per week. I’ve had the misfortune of picking up a running injury, so my swim volume has jumped quite a bit. Hell my swim CTL is higher than my run CTL… by about 50% right not.
swimming should probably be 20%, run 30%, bike 50%, so on a 16 hour week that’s about 3.5, 4.5, 8. Get efficient with you swimming and you can get in 4 workouts of 40-60 minutes each. Put a short recovery run on the same day and run before your swim. There’s some shared recovery benefit from the increase blood flow as well after a run. IT also acts as you swim warm-up so you can pretty much jump right in.
One simple time saving and mentally easier workout I like are descending pyramids. The catch is that you need to swim increasingly faster, but maintain good form throughout. So 1000 yards is a simple 300-250-200-150-100. Double that and you have 2000 yards, 600-500-400-300-200. add an 800, 150 & 100 and you have 3000 yards.
That being said, if time limited, you best benefit will be from improving your technique.
Anaerobic threshold session (likely what you are getting from your masters workout)
Speed/ drills/ technique specific session (you are likely getting the speed part from one of your workouts).
You could lengthen one of your masters workouts, doing a longer pull set before the workout. Focusing on great technique is likely to give you more gains than adding extra volume, especially given the miles you are likely putting in to the bike and run leading into Ironman.
for many weaker swimmer, the cost of battling in the water and getting out of the water exhausted is big…
that is why i beleive to be well prepare for the swim is so important. it allow you to perform at your best on the bike and run without losing too many watts/energy.
The swim is the part where most triathlete understand… and the hidden cost of a ironman swim when understrain is big.
How does investing more time and energy into my swimming translate into 20-30mins faster on the bike, and same on the run?
You can swim harder, making the swim essentially ‘shorter’.You will get out of the water feeling very amped up instead of beat upYou will get to bike with other very strong triathletes. You will not need to pass many weaker athletes but rather just find yourself in a good pace line.
3 is very important. Its fun to pass people on the bike but it increases variability index and burns precious glycogen. A good pace line and low variability will make your bike split faster and the spared effort will make your run faster.
Have not thought it about it from that angle. I always tend to have swim anxiety, so it takes a lot of energy just to get into the water a lot of the time.