Long Steady-State Rides on Trainer Versus Road

Triathlon Forum
1

Want to get the ST perspective on a question I often ask myself, yet have never really convinced myself of an answer I am willing to believe in. Outside of bike handling and shifting skills, from a purely training-response standpoint (e.g., not taking into account mental health, enjoyment, etc) is there any benefit to doing a longer-steady state ride outdoors versus on the trainer? I understand all the benefits of doing hard intervals on the trainer in terms of dialing in specificity, but what about long stuff. To illustrate and give a bit more context, I am often faced with this dilemma:

Let’s say that the prescribed workout is a 3 hour aerobic ride, say keeping the power anywhere between 200-230 watts, looking to average somewhere in the middle, but nothing too specific. I can fight traffic getting out of the city, and then navigate my way through some small towns with tons of lights, and then get out to some good road where I can do the ride. Kind of a pain in the ass, but at the end of the day, if I discount those few miles fighting through crowded areas, I come back having accomplished the time and power goal. Or, I can hook up to the trainer, put on some football, and just use gearing to mix up the wattage and cadence (more as a way to fight off boredom than anything else) and end up with the same numbers.

Again, I fully realize the handling benefits of riding outside, so I don’t want to start a debate about that. I suspect the answer is no difference, and maybe that the trainer ride is even better, but I am curious to hear thoughts and evidence. Yes, tomorrow is NFL Sunday, so I am asking myself this question right now and realized that I don’t really know why I make the decisions that I do. If there is a group to ride with outside or I’m hell-bent on feeling the wind at my back I go outside, but sometimes I just don’t care about that, and simply want a training effect, yet I still find myself leaning toward outdoors more than indoors.

Thanks.

2

If your powermeter reads 230 watts for indoor riding and while moving outdoors, the effort is identical. The multiple stops required while riding outdoors may change the overall “picture” of your workout compared to the indoor riding where no stopping is needed and effort can be sustained.

3

The power output is identical but the effort isn’t. Not by a long shot. Even indoors, 230 watts with a fan blowing and 50F is different effort than no fan and 110F. Aside from enviroment, balance, and the einertia of the trainer vs road change effort.

4

230 watts indoors verse 230 watts outdoors on a flat road with no traffic- at identical temperatures, humidity and wind. Ignore other factors. No difference.

5

You can’t ride like that outdoors, its almost immpossible to duplicate the outdoor enviroment indoors and the other factors that you say to ignore matter. I can choose to eat a hamburger at McDs ignore the ambience cut of mean how its prepared and the food served with it and a steak at Mortons, no difference.

So yeah if you ignore the differences that matter then they are the same.

6

The trainer is a tool that enables you to bulk up your engine when outdoor riding is otherwise impractical or undesired. Like most simulation tools, it cannot provide all of the elements that you experience when riding outdoors. The slight shifts in position, continuous balance, and regular shifting dynamics that occur outside are substantial energy sinks when taken cumulatively, and certainly absent when riding indoors. The results of trainer riding are exclusively a function of how you choose to spend your time.

7

Considering many, not all, push lower watts indoor vs outdoor I’d almost say it is a better workout for you. Will it mimic an outdoor ride no. Is it a great workout, hell yeah. Also on the trainer there is no coasting. I’d say it is a tougher workout.

8

Like most simulation tools, it cannot provide all of the elements that you experience when riding outdoors. The slight shifts in position, continuous balance, and regular shifting dynamics that occur outside are substantial energy sinks when taken cumulatively, and certainly absent when riding indoors.

This is certainly true, but it is worth bearing in mind that road training is also an imperfect simulation of triathlon racing. Tris have no stops, few hills, few turns, no cars etc, and the best execution is steady effort from start to finish. The reality of that lies somewhere between what you can train for on the road and on a trainer.

9

One difference is that on the trainer you don’t need to look to see where you are going. Depending on the rider and bike set up the neck strength and conditioning required to look ahead may be an issue that wouldn’t be addressed if you spent your time on the trainer looking down a lot.

10

Like most simulation tools, it cannot provide all of the elements that you experience when riding outdoors. The slight shifts in position, continuous balance, and regular shifting dynamics that occur outside are substantial energy sinks when taken cumulatively, and certainly absent when riding indoors.

This is certainly true, but it is worth bearing in mind that road training is also an imperfect simulation of triathlon racing. Tris have no stops, few hills, few turns, no cars etc, and the best execution is steady effort from start to finish. The reality of that lies somewhere between what you can train for on the road and on a trainer.

Very true. We race somewhere between a road-like experience and a trainer-like continuity. Fortunately - for many of us - it’s seldom a decision between trainer or road. If the conditions are anything short of ice and prohibitive snow cover on the roads, then I’m riding outside. For the other 4 months of the year, I’m on the trainer.

IMO, the greatest benefit of the trainer is that there are few questions about how hard you’ve worked. Too often, I’ll look at my post-ride files from the road and think, “Wow, I really crushed that set of hills heading north … but then I coasted 90% of the descent heading south.” The VI that I often train with is very unrealistic for long course tri racing.

11

IMO, the greatest benefit of the trainer is that there are few questions about how hard you’ve worked. Too often, I’ll look at my post-ride files from the road and think, “Wow, I really crushed that set of hills heading north … but then I coasted 90% of the descent heading south.” The VI that I often train with is very unrealistic for long course tri racing.

Bingo. This I agree with for sure. Which is why I am especially torn right now and questioning what I do for these rides. I’m currently in a logistical situation (e.g., living in a downtown area with no car for the next month) where I have to fight a lot of traffic and lights to get to any sort of good road. Aside from the VI being unrealistic and the lack of triathlon specificity, it’s not exactly “fun” dodging traffic for an hour; if anything, it’s just dangerous. It is one thing if you hop on a trainer for your aerobic rides every weekend over driving to some good road and riding, but I think given my situation, you all have helped me think through and answer my original question. The trainer will do for now, just need to park it in front of the TV. That will obviously change when I have a car and can more easily get to good road.

Kind of makes me miss living in Ann Arbor. Yeah, not much great in Michigan, but you can be on country roads in no time.

12

One difference is that on the trainer you don’t need to look to see where you are going. Depending on the rider and bike set up the neck strength and conditioning required to look ahead may be an issue that wouldn’t be addressed if you spent your time on the trainer looking down a lot.

I’ve been doing a lot of trainer work this past two years.

IMO, all the critiques of trainer compromising your technique, handling, etc. are totally overrated for triathlon. Yes, you do have to be on the roads enough to get comfortable with basic handling, descents, etc., but it doesn’t take much at all. Once you’re comfortable on the roads, one outdoor hard ride every month is more than adequate for triathlon riding. I don’t know ANYBODY who was a MOP triathlete and suffered significant time losses on race day because they couldn’t handle their bike due to using their trainer too much. If anything, people aren’t on their trainer ENOUGH.

You can look straight down, pound with sloppy technique, etc., but if you’re keeping up your power numbers (or HR or avg speed), you’re legit. I actually find my trainer workouts are BETTER than outdoor rides for training the aggressive aero position as I never have to get out of it, not for lights, climbs, etc. 2 hours in aero with no significant breaks out of it is good stuff for race day. Riding outdoors has always been easier for me compared to a trainer, which locks you into a position without relief.

The trainer is 100% legit. I still prefer riding outdoors in nice conditions (I don’t know anybody who doesn’t) but given the choice of cars, rain, snow, darkness, etc., I’ll choose the trainer for a quality workout more often than not when it’s not great conditions out there. Given that a lot of pros successfully use Computrainers regularly, I think that’s a pretty darn good endorsement.

13

One difference is that on the trainer you don’t need to look to see where you are going. Depending on the rider and bike set up the neck strength and conditioning required to look ahead may be an issue that wouldn’t be addressed if you spent your time on the trainer looking down a lot.

Oh, I’ll be looking up! In addition to the initial causes of this Sunday’s dilemma, (e.g., fiance out-of-town which means bike in living room + opening NFL Sunday) when I saw the quality of the IM70.3Vegas stream, this became a no brainer.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A2Wr0daCYAAyGKS.jpg

14

One difference is that on the trainer you don’t need to look to see where you are going. Depending on the rider and bike set up the neck strength and conditioning required to look ahead may be an issue that wouldn’t be addressed if you spent your time on the trainer looking down a lot.

Oh, I’ll be looking up! In addition to the initial causes of this Sunday’s dilemma, (e.g., fiance out-of-town which means bike in living room + opening NFL Sunday) when I saw the quality of the IM70.3Vegas stream, this became a no brainer.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A2Wr0daCYAAyGKS.jpg

That’s not very much of a bike “torture chamber” is it? :slight_smile: I’m actually mulling the same decision for today myself…it’s going to rain today. And there is football on…

15

My outdoor ride went to a trainer ride because the 20% rain chance turned into thunder and lighting all morning. Thanks Mr. Weatherman.

16

What is with the term “greater> than” in the back ground
.

17

One difference is that on the trainer you don’t need to look to see where you are going. Depending on the rider and bike set up the neck strength and conditioning required to look ahead may be an issue that wouldn’t be addressed if you spent your time on the trainer looking down a lot.

I’ve been doing a lot of trainer work this past two years.

IMO, all the critiques of trainer compromising your technique, handling, etc. are totally overrated for triathlon. Yes, you do have to be on the roads enough to get comfortable with basic handling, descents, etc., but it doesn’t take much at all. Once you’re comfortable on the roads, one outdoor hard ride every month is more than adequate for triathlon riding. I don’t know ANYBODY who was a MOP triathlete and suffered significant time losses on race day because they couldn’t handle their bike due to using their trainer too much. If anything, people aren’t on their trainer ENOUGH.

You can look straight down, pound with sloppy technique, etc., but if you’re keeping up your power numbers (or HR or avg speed), you’re legit. I actually find my trainer workouts are BETTER than outdoor rides for training the aggressive aero position as I never have to get out of it, not for lights, climbs, etc. 2 hours in aero with no significant breaks out of it is good stuff for race day. Riding outdoors has always been easier for me compared to a trainer, which locks you into a position without relief.

The trainer is 100% legit. I still prefer riding outdoors in nice conditions (I don’t know anybody who doesn’t) but given the choice of cars, rain, snow, darkness, etc., I’ll choose the trainer for a quality workout more often than not when it’s not great conditions out there. Given that a lot of pros successfully use Computrainers regularly, I think that’s a pretty darn good endorsement.

I totally agree with you. I did 99% of all my riding this year on my trainer. SO much harder than riding outside, IMO. I had no issues with things like bike handling in a race. And I agree with you that if the Pro’s can kick butt using them, sure worth trying for me.

Now, whatever gets a person in the saddle 7 days a week, 12 months a year is great. I can only do this with my trainer.

.

18

What is with the term “greater> than” in the back ground

Greater > Than is an up-and-coming company that makes Coconut Water. Two young brothers based out of Chicago, had the idea while on a hike a few years ago (pre-Zico and all the other coconut water hype), they hooked up with a sports nutritionist, and launched the brand. Although their distribution is currently limited to the Midwest, they are looking to expand nationally. These are two great guys hustling like crazy to make their brand happen. I’ve been pushing them extremely hard to focus on the triathlon market since their product could be a home-run nutritionally for triathletes (See the recent main-page Allan Lim article) and they are starting to do just that; they have actually been at IM Wisconsin this week and weekend.

In terms of the ride, it was a splendid desicion. Very impressed with the coverage on IronmanLive; thought it was actually quite well done.

19

I’m currently in a logistical situation (e.g., living in a downtown area with no car for the next month) where I have to fight a lot of traffic and lights to get to any sort of good road.

Please. I’m stuck on an island with 2 million people and only way one off via bicycle.

20

I’m currently in a logistical situation (e.g., living in a downtown area with no car for the next month) where I have to fight a lot of traffic and lights to get to any sort of good road.

Please. I’m stuck on an island with 2 million people and only way one off via bicycle.

Right…but your at least your island’s “one way off via bicycle” isn’t a single-lane bike lane on a bridge with consistently high winds and 4 90 degree turns filled with tourists who are obese and have not been on a bike in 10-15 years. Nothing like coming back across the GGB at noon after a long ride. All you want to do is be home and eating and some asshole family is riding 4 across…and then you realize your the asshole for thinking that…