Just curious how most of you prioritize your long rides opposed to your long runs for IM and Half IM. For years I have done the standard long endurance rides on a Saturday then my longer runs on Sunday getting used to running on tired legs etc. but most I talk to these days tell me thats old school space out your long bikes and runs at least two days apart. How do you prioritize your rides and runs.
I used to do it like you, now I do my long run Fridays and long Rides on Sun. I notice I can give a little more on Sundays on the Bike, but still run on tired legs due to running long after work. Best of both world it seems 
And if I do miss my long run on Friday, I still have Saturday to make it up w/o impacting my long ride.
Just curious how most of you prioritize your long rides opposed to your long runs for IM and Half IM. For years I have done the standard long endurance rides on a Saturday then my longer runs on Sunday getting used to running on tired legs etc. but most I talk to these days tell me thats old school space out your long bikes and runs at least two days apart. How do you prioritize your rides and runs.
A lot of people seem to be attracted to this idea of doing your long run the day after your long bike in order to get used to running on tired legs. Honestly, if there’s one thing I’m dead against it’s doing your long run the day after your long bike. Here’s why:
If you’re really doing solid IM training then you’re already consistently running on tired legs. Running on really tired legs usually results in a break down in your form. I believe one of the most important goals of the long run is to run with a focus on proper form. The last thing you want to do is to ingrain poor running form and this is exactly what you’ll do if you consistently do your long run on really tired legs, imho.
For those who are in their early phases of IM development, if it’s possible then I’d strongly encourage them to separate their long run and long bike by at least 48hrs. I consider this one of the highest priorities. I think athletes who have several years of IM training under their belt with a reputation of performing well on the IM run can be much more flexible in the placement of their long run.
Thanks, Chris
Coaches now seem to recommend spacing the long run and long ride apart as much as possible.
Outside of 9 weeks out from an IM I generally do most of my long runs seperated from my long rides for the reasons Lakerfan has mentioned above. However, from 9 weeks down to the taper I’ll shift the focus and run long the day after my long ride. It helps me assess my pacing strategies on the bike and it will give me a chance to keep testing that form and reinforcing that form on tired legs.
It’s not just a physical test, but also I find it strengthens me up mentally in readiness for my next IM.
Paul
Long run mid week.
Long ride on weekends.
I put my long workouts back to back not in order to train myself to run on tired legs, but to better separate fast workouts in the other part of the week. I can do a hard bike/hard run or a long bike/long run close together without any problems, but I find it difficult to do a hard run/long run combo without compromising the pace of one of the workouts. Consolidation of the long workouts also helps recovery. I can complete the “iron-weekend,” recover on Monday and even Tuesday if I want to, then punch out a couple hard days, and then I still have a day or two to recover before the next iron-weekend. If important workouts are smeared out across the week I’ll be on tired legs all the time without any days of complete recovery.
I did my long runs on Thursdays. Long rides would be the better weekend day for weather, and Tuesdays would be a solid bike workout.
Running on “tired legs” is nonsense.
I’ve gone 2 routes
Long run on wednesday, long ride on sat, another ride on sunday
Long ride on wednesday between riding on tues and thurs, long run on sat and mid dist bike/run brick on sunday
jaretj
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Long run on Thursday, long bike on Saturday, Sunday off.
I did my long runs on Thursdays. Long rides would be the better weekend day for weather, and Tuesdays would be a solid bike workout.
Running on “tired legs” is nonsense.
Why would it be nonsense?
At some point you need to develop both physically and mentally what it will feel like to run a marathon after swimming 3.8km and ride 180km.
Becoming accustomed to that feeling while it need not be addressed for a big part of an ironman prep, still needs to form some part of an Ironman prep.
I feel there is a big diference to becoming swim fit, bike fit and run fit as apposed to becoming IM race fit. While I think outside of an IM prep the focus should be becoming as fit as possible in each disciplne, however, when you’re in your IM specific preps you need to spend time focusing on becoming IM race fit. Doing long runs the day after long rides will help address that.
This is how I helped a 1st time IM’er run a 3:30 off the bike. He knew exactly what to expect. He knew exactly what to expect in the 2nd 1/2 of the marathon and he was fast, well he wasn’t really, just everyone around him slowed down. His own reflection afterwards was that there was no guessing on the day. His running developed really well when his long run was seperated from his long bike. It was consolidated once he started running long the day after his long bike. It not only consolidated his running paces, but more importantly the bike pacing strategies.
Paul
Long ride Saturday
Long run Sunday
Yup, I’m old school.
Also married, two kids, work 50 hrs/week and commute 15 hrs/ week.
My first IM 3 years ago, I did the ride on Saturday, run on Sunday thing which gave me a 4:22 marathon split. I actually had a lot more “raw” speed in my legs at the time compared to what I had last year. Last year, I ran long on Saturday and rode long on Tuesday. I was able to hold my form together the entire long run. This carried over to my 2008 IM where I ran 3:26. I’m also a little older, 39, so that extra recovery from a longer session really helped. I’ll never go back to the Sat/Sun thing unless life circumstances dictate that I do so.
That is interseting, I was thinking Sat/Sun might be better as it more closely approximates the race itself.
But perhaps being fresher for each long day lets you get more adaptation out of it…
My first IM 3 years ago, I did the ride on Saturday, run on Sunday thing which gave me a 4:22 marathon split. I actually had a lot more “raw” speed in my legs at the time compared to what I had last year. Last year, I ran long on Saturday and rode long on Tuesday. I was able to hold my form together the entire long run. This carried over to my 2008 IM where I ran 3:26. I’m also a little older, 39, so that extra recovery from a longer session really helped. I’ll never go back to the Sat/Sun thing unless life circumstances dictate that I do so.
I’m reading “Going Long” right now and spacing out the long stuff is what Friel and Byrn recommend. For my first four IMs I did them on consecutive days, while also working nights and weekends; that meant a six-hour ride on four or five hours’ sleep Saturday morning before work. Now that I have a “real people” work schedule, I’m never doing the long stuff on consecutive days again.
Another vote for long rides followed by long runs. You can still work on form and nothing that I have found simulates the feeling of the last half of the run as well as those long training runs. I will give myself a break a couple of times and spread the work out apart but I firmly believe if you do not increase your mileage too quickly you can still focus on form and prevent getting overuse injuries while doing your long work outs on consecutive days.
In my max training period 6-4 weeks prior to race day Sat is long ride with a short 3 mile run. Sunday 1 hour swim, 30 mile easy bike, followed by my long run. Focus is on negative splitting the run.
My 2 cents, all the best,
RF
I have always done LSD ride on Sat or Sun and LSD run on Wed. I found I had better quality workouts and recovered more quickly. The whole “getting used to running on tired legs” mantra is crap and will lead to higher likelihood of injury or illness. Remember, it does you no good if you can’t get to the start line injury-free or as I like to say “injuries are for suckaz”
AP
my .02c…I think a hard ride/run Brick is better than a long ride followed by a long run the next day. In my experience a 4 hour ride that is near half IM power for the bulk of the ride followed by a tempo run up to around an hour is a very hard workout but does not require me to take the 8,000 odd steps on a tired body and skeleton. I usually do my long run on Thursday’s, a hard brick on Saturday and ride long with a very short trans run on Sunday (just to check my nutrition primarily). i do believe, that there is some benefit to running long on tired legs, such as getting mentally prepared for the feeling on race day, but overall the feeling can be delivered with less impact and recovery time through a shorter, harder workout.
I did my long runs on Thursdays. Long rides would be the better weekend day for weather, and Tuesdays would be a solid bike workout.
Running on “tired legs” is nonsense.
X2
I usually try to do the long run tue/wed, & the long bike saturday. Both workouts are of better quality. At my age, running or riding on wasted legs just leaves me on the verge of injury with a 3-4 day recovery to get back to 95%. I stupidly did a 40K bike on the trainer last thursday at just a few watts below my ftp and did a hard 60 mile ride on saturday that left me cramping and crawling in the last 10 miles or so. Blew the running & riding plan for the entire week as everything is recovery at this point. No way I could do back to back long run/ride, maybe 10-15 years ago.
JJ
I did my long runs on Thursdays. Long rides would be the better weekend day for weather, and Tuesdays would be a solid bike workout.
Running on “tired legs” is nonsense.
Why would it be nonsense?
At some point you need to develop both physically and mentally what it will feel like to run a marathon after swimming 3.8km and ride 180km.
Becoming accustomed to that feeling while it need not be addressed for a big part of an ironman prep, still needs to form some part of an Ironman prep.
**I feel there is a big diference to becoming swim fit, bike fit and run fit as apposed to becoming IM race fit. While I think outside of an IM prep the focus should be becoming as fit as possible in each disciplne, however, when you’re in your IM specific preps you need to spend time focusing on becoming IM race fit. Doing long runs the day after long rides will help address that. **
i would argue with you that i could have take that first time ironman guy you work with and make him swim bike and run fit and not day any big run on tired legs or long run the day after the long ride and make him go even faster!
Actually, the long ride and the long run are two very important KEY workout. It s important to do them well, they are priority… So why put them next to each other… better get most out of each by spacing them and making sure you hit them with high focus and physicaly ready.
As for learning to run on tired legs… yes, it s a bit of a none sence… there is nothing to be learn there… you just run in a triathlon in a tired state…but it s still running and if your fit… you will do it well.
And most of my athlete have good consistancy over the week so in big ironman build… they are tired all time so there is your running on tired legs! the only time they run on fresh legs in race day!