Every once in a while, someone asks about long/low bikes, myself included. So I put together a spreadsheet of about 20 bikes that could be fit longer and/or lower than my 58cm P5. Turns out, the P5 is actually pretty short and tall, even relative to the Felt IA which is surprising since most call that a short and tall bike. Below is a summary with some standouts. I added the P4 and IA for reference since those are referred to as long/low and short/tall, respectively.
tldr: Short of a Chinese frame I came across, nothing beats the Speedmax, but the Swift Neurogen and Cannondale SuperSlice get close if we look at frame dimensions (Plasma 6 has the longest possible pad reach, though)
The reason I flip flop on the idea of getting a new bike is that I already have a 100mm -23deg stem, with a +10mm reach basebar (center of clamp to center of riser bolts), no risers, cups in the extreme forward position, and slamthatstem headset cover. That’s about 140mm reach to pad center and 60mm pad stack. My current P5 fit feels and looks (I think) good now but there’s something to be said about making a frame work by going to extremes instead of having a bike that fits better to begin with.
I found some rim-brake SuperSlices, and those are now at the top of my list from a fit perspective. The new Swift frame looks really nice, too. The Canyon fit would be great but it just hasn’t grown on me. I like the integrated nutrition/hydration, but all the Square tubing makes it look like a total aero dog.
Felt DA with fixed stem. Especially the
Bayonet 3 withe 110 stem.
Unless Felt’s website is wrong, it’s taller and shorter than a P5: 58cm is 573/436
I will have to check a little later today when I have time. You can get extremely long on that bike especially with the 110 fixed stem.( Not available on bayonet 4)
For reference my reach is 580 to the center of pad
I would add the Premier Tactical to the list. The one thing is that I was looking at the geometry and it looks like their charts is listing stack and reach to the pads (since it has an integrated front end) where as your numbers seem to be for just the frameset.
I like this. Can you color code the reach column? Longer than P5 in green.
Edit: I see you are doing -10 or something as a threshold.
You’d like the P5 better with the extra low mount.
Although nowadays with Scoops on a TriRig Alpha One you can probably get pretty close.
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My thought was that if it isn’t 10mm longer or lower, then the change isn’t worth calling out. Certainly not enough to spend money on a new frame which will likely also be slower than the P5.
I now have the 100mm PD Aeria stem (12mm stack), Alpha Classic, and 8mm pads for a total of about 55mm pad stack and 140mm reach to center of a 90 pad. My installed pads are 140mm, but center-of-pad isn’t a meaningful measurement with those.
The Alpha One maxes out at 120mm reach and the same stack height. With the Classic I could go another 15mm lower by under-mounting the extensions.
Safety-recall aside, the x-low aduro would also be 10mm taller and 35mm shorter. It’s hard to hit my fit numbers with integrated stems. The x-low setup does look really nice though.
I would add the Premier Tactical to the list. The one thing is that I was looking at the geometry and it looks like their charts is listing stack and reach to the pads (since it has an integrated front end) where as your numbers seem to be for just the frameset.
Since the longest it’ll go is 20mm shorter than my P5 setup (no lower, either) and frame dimensions aren’t listed, it didn’t make my list. Granted, while some integrated setups (like Plasma 6) have a lot of adjustment, most have short stems and higher minimum stack than a long, low-rise stem combined with aftermarket bars
I am sort surprised the old Shiv TT does make the list. Stack was constant from the S to XL at 543 and reach went all the way out to 515.
Interesting. Can’t find the chart for the old Shiv TT, but are those frame or pad measurements? 543 stack is really tall for an S and 515 reach would be a lot longer than the next longest XL bike.
Felt DA with fixed stem. Especially the
Bayonet 3 withe 110 stem.
Unless Felt’s website is wrong, it’s taller and shorter than a P5: 58cm is 573/436
I will have to check a little later today when I have time. You can get extremely long on that bike especially with the 110 fixed stem.( Not available on bayonet 4)
For reference my reach is 580 to the center of pad
My reach is currently also 580mm to center of a 90mm long pad. Of course, all of these bikes will benefit from a long stem which is why I went with frame dimensions in the table
I am sort surprised the old Shiv TT does make the list. Stack was constant from the S to XL at 543 and reach went all the way out to 515.
Interesting. Can’t find the chart for the old Shiv TT, but are those frame or pad measurements? 543 stack is really tall for an S and 515 reach would be a lot longer than the next longest XL bike.
Felt DA with fixed stem. Especially the
Bayonet 3 withe 110 stem.
Unless Felt’s website is wrong, it’s taller and shorter than a P5: 58cm is 573/436
I looked around for the white paper–I thought I had it–as that info on Felts site does not reflect what the bike truly is for the 51 either by STAN’s measure or Felt’s original measure. I am guessing that the 58 is also off in comparison to what you have above. The Da is one of the longest and lowest bikes still out there.
e.g. Felt says the 51 is 388/521 reach and stack, respectively and my rig as measured is 395mm and 513mm (to the top of the stem).
Going off of memory I recall Felt calling reach somewhere around 400 and stack around 488. This is without the stem installed and as the story goes Dan didn’t like this measure as it sat bellow the top tube so they revised the measure up to where the top of the stem would be. Again, I wish I had the original geo chart as it would give the best comparison for what you want.
ETA maybe I should have looked at the stack and reach database??
Felt DA with fixed stem. Especially the
Bayonet 3 withe 110 stem.
Unless Felt’s website is wrong, it’s taller and shorter than a P5: 58cm is 573/436
I will have to check a little later today when I have time. You can get extremely long on that bike especially with the 110 fixed stem.( Not available on bayonet 4)
For reference my reach is 580 to the center of pad
My reach is currently also 580mm to center of a 90mm long pad. Of course, all of these bikes will benefit from a long stem which is why I went with frame dimensions in the table
I’m not seeing your issue… my reach is like 580mm to back of pad and I’m fine on a 58cm P5. If I were to slam the bars I think I’d be at 600mm. With aesthetically matched spacer to bento and pad tilt I’m coming in at 630mm I think.
I’m not seeing your issue… my reach is like 580mm to back of pad and I’m fine on a 58cm P5. If I were to slam the bars I think I’d be at 600mm. With aesthetically matched spacer to bento and pad tilt I’m coming in at 630mm I think.
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No real issue. 580 pad reach is just quite a stretch on a 437mm long frame, though. Are you sure you’re not at 480 to back of pad? What stem and bars are you on that add ~200mm to center of pad from the steerer? I can’t picture what that would even look like.
The table in the link says 545mm is max pad reach (to center, so ~500mm to back of pad) when the Aduro bar is slammed on a 58cm P5. That’s 100mm less than what you have. Not even the super long and adjustable Plasma 6 XL can get to 600mm of reach.
I am sort surprised the old Shiv TT does make the list. Stack was constant from the S to XL at 543 and reach went all the way out to 515.
Interesting. Can’t find the chart for the old Shiv TT, but are those frame or pad measurements? 543 stack is really tall for an S and 515 reach would be a lot longer than the next longest XL bike.
I am sort surprised the old Shiv TT does make the list. Stack was constant from the S to XL at 543 and reach went all the way out to 515.
Interesting. Can’t find the chart for the old Shiv TT, but are those frame or pad measurements? 543 stack is really tall for an S and 515 reach would be a lot longer than the next longest XL bike.
