So, have documented my ongoing run ‘injuries’ fairly well on here, MTSS, achilles strain, couple stress fractures, etc.
Basically something down there always hurts when I run. Doesn’t matter which shoes (though vapors are best for me in that sense), always pain.
So other day I’m on my indoor bike, and after the workout, just for whatever reason, decided to hop on my treadmill for a few minutes in just my sock feet. Well probably the least amount of pain I’ve felt while running. Might have been naturally forefoot striking? But I’ve tried forcing a forefoot strike while running in shoes and did not feel good at all.
So, have documented my ongoing run ‘injuries’ fairly well on here, MTSS, achilles strain, couple stress fractures, etc.
Basically something down there always hurts when I run. Doesn’t matter which shoes (though vapors are best for me in that sense), always pain.
So other day I’m on my indoor bike, and after the workout, just for whatever reason, decided to hop on my treadmill for a few minutes in just my sock feet. Well probably the least amount of pain I’ve felt while running. Might have been naturally forefoot striking? But I’ve tried forcing a forefoot strike while running in shoes and did not feel good at all.
So does this tell me anything meaningful???
I think running barefoot or with minimalist shoes is only good for <1% of the running population. I’d imagine most peeps would pick up an injury at some point. That said I do feel a lot of running shoes really mess with people’s running styles and perhaps encourage an incorrect technique. I remember when I first ran in racing flats, the very first time I ran in them, I ran forefoot, with a much higher cadence. It just seemed to happen naturally. But really I don’t see how someone that is getting stress fractures and MTSS etc can run barefoot without problems. I guess its worth a shot? Maybe try racing flats?
So, have documented my ongoing run ‘injuries’ fairly well on here, MTSS, achilles strain, couple stress fractures, etc.
Basically something down there always hurts when I run. Doesn’t matter which shoes (though vapors are best for me in that sense), always pain.
So other day I’m on my indoor bike, and after the workout, just for whatever reason, decided to hop on my treadmill for a few minutes in just my sock feet. Well probably the least amount of pain I’ve felt while running. Might have been naturally forefoot striking? But I’ve tried forcing a forefoot strike while running in shoes and did not feel good at all.
So does this tell me anything meaningful???
I think running barefoot or with minimalist shoes is only good for <1% of the running population. I’d imagine most peeps would pick up an injury at some point. That said I do feel a lot of running shoes really mess with people’s running styles and perhaps encourage an incorrect technique. I remember when I first ran in racing flats, the very first time I ran in them, I ran forefoot, with a much higher cadence. It just seemed to happen naturally. But really I don’t see how someone that is getting stress fractures and MTSS etc can run barefoot without problems. I guess its worth a shot? Maybe try racing flats?
Thanks for the reply. I wasn’t really implying that I should start doing a bunch of barefoot running, was more wondering why barefoot would appear to hurt less. Just seemed odd!
If you are running barefoot you will not heel strike. I switched to fore/mid foot running to ease knee pain. It eased my knee pain somewhat and I no longer get any quad strain, but it is tough as hell on my calf muscles - so I can’t imagine it would be great for achilles problems (unless it would eventually strengthen them).
I attempted to convert to forefoot running 9 years ago, after pain and knee injury, and was very successful. However, shoe choice was very important. The difference for me was very subtle, and try as I might, I couldn’t make it work with mainstream shoes with a high drop. As I would concentrate on a forefoot strike, and shifting my landing weight to my forefoot, the heel of the shoe would still contact the ground first. My next step was zero drop Altra shoes. I gave them 6 months and two models worth, and gave up. My forefoot would indeed contact the ground first, and it didn’t take long before a whole new set of symptoms reared their ugly head, with plantar fasciitis and terrible shin splints. Next came the HOKA Bondi and Clifton with a 5mm drop. Perfect, and although my brain still says forefoot strike, and my weight lands on my toes, the shoe itself lands flatfoot (midfoot) with very even weight distribution. That’s what I’ve been running in ever since, and have been less injury prone, and more pain free since.
At the prompting of a very good Physical Therapist, I first tried true barefoot running about 2.5 years ago. I was very skeptical (FYI- I owned a running shoe store for 5 years, and always thought barefoot running was a bad fad!). I decided to start with a 1 mile route on asphalt roads right out my front door. My typical training pace at that point was about 7:30 per mile. I started out very carefully, about 12 min pace, and was quickly surprised how good it felt. I gradually increased my pace and ran the last 1/4 at 7:30 pace. It was only a mile, but it was the best I had ever felt in the first mile of a run. No knee complaints, no lower back tightness, everything felt really good. I decided to continue the 1 mile runs daily for a week, and things got better and better. I purchased some ultra minimal shoes from Xero, and gradually increased my mileage, reaching a peak of 120 miles a week after 4 months. I previously had never run more than 70 miles in a week, but I had no foot, calf, knee, back issues at any point- which I had previously accepted as part of running! I backed off to my normal sweet spot of running mileage at 50-60 miles per week, but only to balance training time for biking and swimming.
I believe the the benefits of barefoot, or true minimalist running are founded in 2 very important influences on running, proprioception and posture. Most running shoes, particularly any shoes with drop, and big cushioned outsoles, effect both of these in negative ways. Not muting proprioception allows your entire kinetic chain to be in sync with your stride and ground impact, while muting it does not allow your kinetic chain to respond effectively (IMO and partially confirmed in a 1960s huge military study). Likewise for posture, any shoe with drop and heavy cushioning will alter your natural posture, and it is very difficult (impossible?) to compensate for this.
The longer you run with altered posture, and muted proprioception, the more likely you are to the numerous common running injuries.
There is no denying that the big cushioned shoes feel great on your feet, but is the price of injury worth it?
Barefoot running feels amazing, and the only way to find out is to try it!
Super important if you want to do this is to condition and strengthen your feet for 6 months- 1 year by going minimal with everything you do on your feet, except running. Wearing traditional shoes most of the day definitely results in atrophy of foot muscles, tendons and other important stabilization muscles. Strong, healthy feet are a must! (This is not essential for short, test runs, and should not be done by anyone with medically based foot problems)
At the prompting of a very good Physical Therapist, I first tried true barefoot running about 2.5 years ago. I was very skeptical (FYI- I owned a running shoe store for 5 years, and always thought barefoot running was a bad fad!). I decided to start with a 1 mile route on asphalt roads right out my front door. My typical training pace at that point was about 7:30 per mile. I started out very carefully, about 12 min pace, and was quickly surprised how good it felt. I gradually increased my pace and ran the last 1/4 at 7:30 pace. It was only a mile, but it was the best I had ever felt in the first mile of a run. No knee complaints, no lower back tightness, everything felt really good. I decided to continue the 1 mile runs daily for a week, and things got better and better. I purchased some ultra minimal shoes from Xero, and gradually increased my mileage, reaching a peak of 120 miles a week after 4 months. I previously had never run more than 70 miles in a week, but I had no foot, calf, knee, back issues at any point- which I had previously accepted as part of running! I backed off to my normal sweet spot of running mileage at 50-60 miles per week, but only to balance training time for biking and swimming.
I believe the the benefits of barefoot, or true minimalist running are founded in 2 very important influences on running, proprioception and posture. Most running shoes, particularly any shoes with drop, and big cushioned outsoles, effect both of these in negative ways. Not muting proprioception allows your entire kinetic chain to be in sync with your stride and ground impact, while muting it does not allow your kinetic chain to respond effectively (IMO and partially confirmed in a 1960s huge military study). **Likewise for posture, any shoe with drop and heavy cushioning will alter your natural posture, and it is very difficult (impossible?) to compensate for this. **
The longer you run with altered posture, and muted proprioception, the more likely you are to the numerous common running injuries.
There is no denying that the big cushioned shoes feel great on your feet, but is the price of injury worth it?
Barefoot running feels amazing, and the only way to find out is to try it!
Super important if you want to do this is to condition and strengthen your feet for 6 months- 1 year by going minimal with everything you do on your feet, except running. Wearing traditional shoes most of the day definitely results in atrophy of foot muscles, tendons and other important stabilization muscles. Strong, healthy feet are a must! (This is not essential for short, test runs, and should not be done by anyone with medically based foot problems)
I bolded two points in your post and I am going to take my vibrams out to the local soccer field and revive a bit of that. I have not done much laterly and for sure my body felt better when I would do more drills and accelarations with them on and you kind of end up using your entire lowe limb chain along with core and pelvis like more for a spring
Ditch the plated shoes for a couple months and then use sparingly.
But use what instead?
Mix in some 1 mile runs with vibrams?
For longer runs, the issue is that I have even worse pain in most typical shoes, than I do with the Vapors. By typical, I mean Endorphins, New Balance beacons, etc.
Ditch the plated shoes for a couple months and then use sparingly.
But use what instead?
Mix in some 1 mile runs with vibrams?
For longer runs, the issue is that I have even worse pain in most typical shoes, than I do with the Vapors. By typical, I mean Endorphins, New Balance beacons, etc.
Thanks to this post I jogged our to the local soccer field with ON cloudflow on my feet and changed into vibrams for 20 min of accelerations, drills and sprints. Then went back to the ON cloudflow dropped my vibrams at home and finished rest of run (35 more min) doing a local 1km loop with a nice hill climb in the middle.
My posture was better when I out regular shoes on and was using my lower legs, pelvis and core more like a spring.
My body was better at being soft on impact and stiffening up to push off. Less slapping and thumping the ground which is possible on highly cushioned shoes.
It is partially why I like ON because the final contact point with ground is quite hard once the lugs flatten out and you have a firm platform at push off. It is why sprinters like hard tracks and shoes with nothing in them !!! When I think of my 80’s track spikes I guess it makes sense !!!
But no way I would run with vibrams on pavement at a few weeks from 56 years old…
Hmmm….I started barefoot/minimalist running at almost 63 I personally don’t consider vibrams a true minimalist shoe. The outsole is too firm and thick to allow natural foot movement, IMO.
… I wasn’t really implying that I should start doing a bunch of barefoot running, was more wondering why barefoot would appear to hurt less. Just seemed odd!
It would appear to suggest that your pain may not be caused by a lack of padding or support, but rather by your usual footwear interfering with the proper functioning of your foot.
I once suffered with knee pain, sore feet and quite often some back pain while running. around late 2010 I think, I was forced to stop running for about a year due to severe knee pain. That was when I took up cycling. Anyway, I tried returning to running several times in 2011 but the knee pain returned at once each time. Finally I tried restarting using minimalist shoes (1st iteration of the Merrel Barefoot Trail Gloves). I was very cautious and my first run was a walk of about 2km interspersed with a total of maybe 400m of running. It felt weird but promising. I was forced to shorten my strides and dramatically increase my cadence. It wasn’t difficult, just needed a bit of awareness and a willingness to forget how I used to do things. I took a couple few months gradually increasing endurance. My calves were getting very, very tight at first, but they adapted over the first few weeks. I was almost immediately more comfortable in the minimalist shoes and after a while I was also enjoying my running more than I ever had. I did try my old shoes again a few months later out of curiosity and found them horrible. I lasted about 1km and took them off. Eventually I switched from the completely uncushioned Trail Gloves, to the Merrel Bare Access shoes, which had something like 7 or 8mm of cushioning, but no drop and was extremely flexible. I’ve been using these ever since. I haven’t had any significant injuries in the last 10 years. My knee problems almost vanished and my back, hips and feet all feel better. In fact the faint knee pain I do sometimes experience in recent years only seems to occur on the bike and often fades when I run!
I’ve done plenty duathlons, Olympic Dist, several 70.3s and one IM, all using Bare Access shoes, and have felt all the better for it. I tried one or two other shoes briefly along the way, (Skora Tempo, and one of the Newton shoes) but each was a significant dis-improvement for me, and as they were born out of curiosity rather than need, I just stuck with the Bare Access. I do have a pair of Merrel Vapors too, now that I think of it. They were quite nice, but I never used them much. Some of the places I run have a lot of stones about, and those hurt a bit in the Vapors IIRC.
Someone ran the 2021 70.3 Augusta 13.1 run portion barefoot. He passed me. wtf lol
During the Born To Run/Barefoot Boom of 2009, I don’t recall ever being passed by someone barefooted or in Vibrams; I was always passing them — and I am not fast
That’s not to say there may have not been some up the road, going lickety-split, and I never caught them
I ran 9 months off an on in vibrams maybe 500 miles with my longest run being 13 miles. Note: I don’t run long outside marathons so this probably was the longest distance in any shoes during this period outside racing.
They were great in the snow and decent in the ice. They were fine for hot pavement.
They were AWFUL for any path with small-ish rocks. Unless the path was smooth-ish crushed limestone my bottom of my feet were not tough enough to deal with any offroad or even debris in the road.
The other thing I didn’t like was putting them on. I got better, but it still was annoying.
Based on your history of injuries you have to try something new otherwise you are the definition of insanity.
If you have pain/injury running you must either A) Quit running or B) Change something
Note: I’m running in Newton Distance/Gravity now exclusively. Thank god for eBay and used shoes.
I personally don’t consider vibrams a true minimalist shoe. The outsole is too firm and thick to allow natural foot movement, IMO.