Hello all,
I am racing my first full IM next month and plan on running latex tubes for the first time. I always used buttl because latex is impossible to find here and International shipping is a PITA.
Some questions:
What tubes do you guys reccomend? Will be racing with 404/disc and Conti GP4ks 23.
Rim tape? If yes, which one?
sealant? How much?
how would you compare the risk of flatting with a proper installed latex tube vs butyl?
Thanks!!
Where is “here” that you can’t get international shipping or a local source?
I have Michelin tubes and have been happy with them, but you’ll want to find something with an appropriate valve length for your wheels.
I didn’t change rim tape.
No sealant.
No change in flat risk as far as I can tell (though I haven’t flatted the latex, nor the previous tubes for some time prior either). Just be careful installing as they’re way more flexible and might pinch under the bead if you’re clumsy.
I forget what brand I used, perhaps Michelin, it was whatever one had removable valve cores so I could put by extenders on
Nothing special here for me, I just treat them like any other tube with the exception of installing (be extra careful to check sides for no pinches) and more inflating (they lose air faster)
No sealant
No different rim tape
Never flatted (knock on wood)
.
The Michi latex tubes I have used have worked well, but I’ve never seen one with removable valve cores. For that reason I use Vittoria latex tubes and they work well.
Thanks, guys.
I am living in south america. No local retailers here and international shipping is super slow because of customs.
I was thinking of the sealant for some extra puncture protection
What country do you live in?
Get a bead jack to aid with installing.
Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack (Fоur РаÑk) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QV889CB/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_etgXCbDR91TFQ
Hi! I live in Brazil and always buy stuff (chain, tires, tubes, saddle) from merlin cycles. It takes 1 month to get here, but I have never had any problem…
I’m gonna get crap for this but…
I love latex tubes and have run them in training for years.
But, twice I have had them blow in transition when topping up after leaving them overnight.
Changing a tube in transition, with ten or twenty minutes to go before the swim, sure does focus you.
And yes it’s probably my fault they blew (but I only go to 90lbs) so obviously I’m doing something wrong, except for the rest of the season.
So to use an old expression, fool me once…
Have at it.
My favorite latex tube is the Silca. It is made for them by Vittoria (my 2nd best). But the Silca tubes have shorter and better stems. That means that they are easier to inflate with disc wheels.
I do not use sealant. I have been riding latex as everyday for a couple years. I have only had one flat in 3 years of riding, and that was two weeks ago after a massive descent in which I rode the brakes the whole way. I was using Velo Plugs instead of rim tape, and I think that was a significant factor. I will be going back to HED rim tape going forward. If I did not have HED tape on hand, I would use Silca’s tape.
I think flat risk with latex is lower than butyl in normal use. However, good installation is key. It is easier to screw up installation with latex which leads to failure. So, get them installed ASAP and ride them to confirm you did a good job before race day.
Also, carry a butyl tube as your spare during the race (and any time). Butyl leaks C02 less than latex and is easier to install in a hurry.
I only use sealant in races. As often as not the sealant doesn’t seal the puncture. But, I figure it’s worth it for the off chance that it DOES work in a race.
Day to day, I go dry also. I also run latex year round. Sealant makes tube repairs harder, roadside patching a tube with sealant that didn’t work sucks balls. Sealant will also ruin a tube if left uninflated for any length of time. Since sealant has to be topped up several times a year, the total cost of tubes+sealant+ruined tubes inflates the perceived cost of latex vs butyl.
Some questions:
Vittoria Latex Tubes
Silica Rim Tape - size depends on your wheels
Orange Seal
Overall risk of flatting less. Risk of flatting because of installation error, great than butyl
But I did answer all those questions too and put some more color around them in an older article “Why Latex Tubes - Faster, More Comfortable, Less Flats”
Thanks, Thomas and all!
Lots of good info in this thread…I’ve got to give latex a try.
Vittoria or Challenge tubes, no sealant, two layers of MTB rim tape.
I just moved from Challenge to Vittoria. My last few Challenge tubes have shown signs of weakening around the valve stem, right where the black stem base meets the pink latex. The pink latex turned white, it was very thinned in that area.
The Michi latex tubes I have used have worked well, but I’ve never seen one with removable valve cores. For that reason I use Vittoria latex tubes and they work well.
I use michelin latex for 10 years now also in training. No more problems as one would have with butyl. Just faster.
With Michelin you have to open the valves before putting the valve extensions on and just let them open. To avoid that they close because of movement over time I fix the valve in the open position with locktite.
I take a wire made of a paperclip with me to enter into the valve in case I need to let air out: important if you want to change tube when it is flat but still has some air in it. Do not forget anything: take especially some spare of the small o-rings to be inserted between the valve and the extension. These are 3,5 * 1 mm and I ordered a whole bunch of them in the internet (look for o-rings, not for bikeshops. The bikeshops usuallly only ship one per extension)
exxxviii,
Thanks for the kind words regarding out tubes. yes, our tubes are made by Vittoria and have a little graphene added which make them lose air much slower than older generations of latex tubes, but also have aluminum SILCA made valves with removable valve cores. You can buy them as a tube only or packaged with extenders… this allows you to buy 2 tubes with 2 different extenders.
In general, latex tubes are more resistant to both pinch flats and puncture type flats, they not only roll faster, but have lower dynamic stiffness than butyl tubes due to the lower hysteresis in the system when installed (we will soon have a whole episode on this at marginalgainspodcast.cc)
For Michael Hatch, the failure mode you are describing is almost always associated with pinched tubes, or migrating rim tape. Our experience installing literally thousands of tubes for pro triathletes, ProTour TT, and our own use is that latex is more robust than butyl and when installed without pinch using adhesive backed rim tape that fully covers the tire bed, you can run these for years without issue.
We have a few videos on our youtube channel about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asbbjd223mY
Our recommendations are to use 2 wraps of tubeless tape on the rim to ensure that the rim tape doesn’t migrate laterally during installation. Pre-inflate the tube slightly and make sure it’s between the beads of the rim before installing the 2nd tire bead and then inspect 360degrees both sides before final inflation. It also helps to not let the tubes go completely flat once installed as rolling the bike on deflated tubes can allow them to creep under the tire bead before you next inflate them which can cause a failure. At the end of the day, latex tubes are a little bit of extra work, but represent about as big a technological gain as can be purchased for your bike… and certainly offer the biggest bang for the buck of any efficiency upgrade.
Josh
Vittoria latex because they have removable cores. I feel way more confident using extenders with them compared to the screw on type which usually requires plumbers tape, and even then sometimes I can’t get a solid seal.
I’ve moved to using tubeless tape on all my rims, even though I only use tubeless on my MTB. The velox cotton tape tends to shift around.
No sealant for latex tubes.
I would say the risk is lower than butyl as your risk of pinching is reduced.
I’m gonna get crap for this but…
I love latex tubes and have run them in training for years.
But, twice I have had them blow in transition when topping up after leaving them overnight.
Changing a tube in transition, with ten or twenty minutes to go before the swim, sure does focus you.
And yes it’s probably my fault they blew (but I only go to 90lbs) so obviously I’m doing something wrong, except for the rest of the season.
So to use an old expression, fool me once…
Have at it.
By any chance, did you completely deflate your tubes before transporting your bike to this race?
Anytime you allow your tires to go completely flat, the beads of the tire are allowed to wiggle around, and sometimes your tube can sneak under there (butyl or latex). So as a rule of thumb for me, if the tube was allowed to go completely flat, I always check for folds of the tube under the bead before pumping up. It’s really no different than if you were installing a new tube and checking for folds.
So it’s possible in these 2 situations, you allowed your tires to go completely flat. A fold formed, but when you left your bike overnight, you only pumped up to 60 psi. But on race morning when you went to full 90 psi…pop.
Or it could be your rim tape. My point is that tubes simply don’t “pop” at 90 psi because of the material they are made out of. A properly installed tube with proper rim tape has nowhere to go…thus it is only possible for it to pop if you pump the it up so high that you blow the tire off the rim. Instead of looking at latex and thinking that somehow magically they pop on race morning compared to butyl, I would look at the things you do differently on race day compared to all your other training days.