He’s going to wear a one piece skinsuit; almost identical to Marino’s… but not white; it’s all Saucony green.
Anybody know the numbers on those suits? Is he going to save 5 watts with it? I know “some” skinsuits have shown that much savings; but I haven’t heard anything about these half breeds specifically built for tri suits.
I think I read somewhere he was going to wear Skinfit? There were 4 or 5 testing skin suits for Kona…And according to Jim@Ero the time savings appear to be worth it, even if you have to change…
Would “I could tell you but then I’d have to kill you” be too hokey? He’s wearing something custom we brainstormed during his fit/aero testing. Wouldn’t surprise me to see it come to market.
Would “I could tell you but then I’d have to kill you” be too hokey? He’s wearing something custom we brainstormed during his fit/aero testing. Wouldn’t surprise me to see it come to market.
HAH! Since I’ve baited you 
Can you answer one very lingering question that everyone wants answered…
We all know it changes from person to person BUT, typically, what is the fastest bottle setup? I’m assuming aerobars, and single behind the saddle? I’ve also heard you say that bottles on the frame are ‘benign’… can you elaborate?
We’ll probably conduct an all-out bottle shootout (hey, we should call it that!) sometime this winter. It is very setup-dependent, so we would test bottle on different bikes, aero bars, etc.
I will say the single biggest change we’ve seen form a bottle setup is when we put a Torhans Aero 30 in front of an already very clean front end. I’m not able to post numbers (after Kona perhaps - many have noticed we’ve gone silent as we approached the big race), but it was good enough for us to question and re-test. Sure enough, it worked very well.
We’ll probably conduct an all-out bottle shootout (hey, we should call it that!) sometime this winter. It is very setup-dependent, so we would test bottle on different bikes, aero bars, etc.
I will say the single biggest change we’ve seen form a bottle setup is when we put a Torhans Aero 30 in front of an already very clean front end. I’m not able to post numbers (after Kona perhaps - many have noticed we’ve gone silent as we approached the big race), but it was good enough for us to question and re-test. Sure enough, it worked very well.
What?!?! What happened to all the hype about the new Xlabs bottle? Don’t make me start questioning whether or not you’re getting paid on the side
Xlab is the best bta we’ve tested, but you asked for best bottle setup. If I’m setting up hydration on my bike, I start with a Aero 30. That is, of course, until I test something even faster! 
I guess I’m confused.
I guess I’m confused.
I think Jim is saying that the torhans 30 is faster than a between the arms bottle, even on (or maybe especially on) a bike with a very clean front end.
Xlab is the best bta we’ve tested, but you asked for best bottle setup. If I’m setting up hydration on my bike, I start with a Aero 30. That is, of course, until I test something even faster!
So the was the Torhans 30 faster than the Torhans 20?
Xlab is the best bta we’ve tested, but you asked for best bottle setup. If I’m setting up hydration on my bike, I start with a Aero 30. That is, of course, until I test something even faster!
We appreciate the endorsement Jim. And no, I have never met Jim but hope to test at ERO soon. We would welcome a hydration shoot out.
The results of the Aero 30 are not new to us. We’ve known all along that the airfoil shape (NACA Series 6) of the bottle along with being set up properly near the head tube, it will provide a great front end with a better aspect ratio then any other frame head tube maybe sans the new Felt IA. In our tests it was king at 0 yaw and 15 yaw as it’s lifting properties kicked in.
Of course a bottle between the arms is fast. Our product launched just before Cervelo released their hydration study but NEVER tested our products…Never. So BTA systems are pretty fast. Set up dependent however. In fact we are launching our own BTA at Kona called the AeroZ…It’s AeroZontal. I think it will exceed the the expectations for everyone that wants a very sleek, aero, and functional BTA unit. But we still think set up properly the Aero 30 may just be faster than our AeroZ, especially at high yaw till the stall point.
Ride safely, fast, and hydrate
Hans
Xlab is the best bta we’ve tested, but you asked for best bottle setup. If I’m setting up hydration on my bike, I start with a Aero 30. That is, of course, until I test something even faster!
We’ve known all along that the airfoil shape (NACA Series 6) of the bottle along with being set up properly near the head tube, it will provide a great front end with a better aspect ratio then any other frame head tube maybe sans the new Felt IA. In our tests it was king at 0 yaw and 15 yaw as it’s lifting properties kicked in.
Hans
Hans, can you elaborate on “being set up properly near the headtube?” Is “properly” characterized by the distance of trailing edge of the bottle to HD? Or is it based on how low the bottle is sitting? I’m actually just taking a Torhans 30 out of it’s packaging tonight, and have been torn between running this, and a BTA, next Saturday.
Also, did you have any findings on the 30\s effect on a lousy front end?
Xlab is the best bta we’ve tested, but you asked for best bottle setup. If I’m setting up hydration on my bike, I start with a Aero 30. That is, of course, until I test something even faster!
We’ve known all along that the airfoil shape (NACA Series 6) of the bottle along with being set up properly near the head tube, it will provide a great front end with a better aspect ratio then any other frame head tube maybe sans the new Felt IA. In our tests it was king at 0 yaw and 15 yaw as it’s lifting properties kicked in.
Hans
Hans, can you elaborate on “being set up properly near the headtube?” Is “properly” characterized by the distance of trailing edge of the bottle to HD? Or is it based on how low the bottle is sitting? I’m actually just taking a Torhans 30 out of it’s packaging tonight, and have been torn between running this, and a BTA, next Saturday.
Also, did you have any findings on the 30\s effect on a lousy front end?
Hi Dave,
First off, sorry about the Luke Mckenzie hijack thread. I’ll answer though.
Yes, I can confirm closer to the head tube is very advantageous. Faster than no bottle at all.
Yes, We do have findings of late of making a standard ‘round tube’ head tube bike faster and independent testing, one on the current female Ironman World Champion, the other on the fastest ever IM cyclist that gave the same result on both their already fast bikes. The results were even better than I could expect on both.
Email me if you have set up questions. There are 3 ways to mount the Aeromount to give you the best result.
Cheers,
Hans
Definitely looking forward to the bottle shootout! It is interesting to see the different results that come back from various testing methods. XLAB products have been tested by ERO Sports at the Velodrome, Cervelo wind tunnel testing, and 3rd party media wind tunnel testing (most recently by Aaron Hersh).
I was amazed at the level of detail ERO Sports could delve into. Being able to see whether a full suit or a traditional suit was more aerodynamic is fascinating.
Jim I know you were looking at applying more crosswind drag results into your testing. Any updates? Would love to test our products again with this applied there!
I never saw any info on the Aero Z? Did it get released at Kona?
Yep! We had a few shape prototypes on display. We will post more pics on our Facebook page this week. Details on the fill on go system (100% SPLASH FREE), Aero data (CFD, Aero testing), custom colors/graphics, and how it can integrate with other internal frame hydration systems…all to be released soon. Expect units in your favorite tri shop in late January.
Ride safely, fast, and hydrate.
Hans
Yep! We had a few shape prototypes on display. We will post more pics on our Facebook page this week. Details on the fill on go system (100% SPLASH FREE), Aero data (CFD, Aero testing), custom colors/graphics, and how it can integrate with other internal frame hydration systems…all to be released soon. Expect units in your favorite tri shop in late January.
Ride safely, fast, and hydrate.
Hans
Hold up… Wait a second.
So, I was literally about to purchase the aero 30 bc of all this talk and then read your own data sheet:
http://www.torhans.com/images/TorHans_Details_On_Design.pdf
You claim the aero 20 is better on the bottom graph where you have the Torpedo system slightly better than the aero 30!!! But you claim the aero 30 saves 8 watts and the aero 20 only 2. WHICH IS IT?!?!?
Sad but true fact is I have a Speed Concept and love Dirk Bockle… Should I just emulate him?
On Starky and Leanda that was the savings with the Aero 30 as both those athletes use that product. The Aero 20 we only have our own CFD, and wind tunnel data.
Note; Starky tested at the wind tunnel in Spain and we were privy to the results. Leanda tested at ERO and I have only heard the results, never seen them. We only will publish what we have in hand. But if Jim from ERO would like to release the data that is fine with me and TorHans.
Hans
On Starky and Leanda that was the savings with the Aero 30 as both those athletes use that product. The Aero 20 we only have our own CFD, and wind tunnel data.
Note; Starky tested at the wind tunnel in Spain and we were privy to the results. Leanda tested at ERO and I have only heard the results, never seen them. We only will publish what we have in hand. But if Jim from ERO would like to release the data that is fine with me and TorHans.
Hans
This is an assumption but my guess is that Leanda and Starky had good numbers with the aero 30 because they both have the bottle very flush with their head tube.
That being said, would you suggest going with the aero 20 if I am unable to get the aero 30 flush?
I can say that yes based on the data from Starky the Aero 30 was negative drag of 50 grams (compared to no hydration) close to the head tube. The number was still good just not as good when further from the head tube.
You can get creative with the mount and also install it from underneath the aero extensions (wings up on the mount). So it contacts with the inside of the aero extensions. Depending on you frame size and drop this may be a good option to get it closer to the head tube.
You can always email me for pics @ Hans@torhans.com. Sorry if I’m slow to respond though. Headed off the island then off to fun Jury duty this week.
Cheers,
Hans