So how do these compare? I haven’t tried or even had the Speeds in my hands. Is there a reason to go with the Speeds over the Kinvara? Both use the same foam and weigh the same. Kinvara has 4mm less drop but about 7mm less stack. Anyone out there have worn them both and can shed some light?
So how do these compare? I haven’t tried or even had the Speeds in my hands. Is there a reason to go with the Speeds over the Kinvara? Both use the same foam and weigh the same. Kinvara has 4mm less drop but about 7mm less stack. Anyone out there have worn them both and can shed some light?
Kinvara uses PWRRUN vs Enordphin Speed PWRRUN PB. The Speed’s Pebax midsole is one of the bigger differences I believe. Thats the same midsole in the Nike Vaporflys.
Night and day difference from owning both. Kinvara nice soft trainer but doesn’t roll you forward like the endorphin does
Do you all wear the same size for both the Kinvara and Speed?
Ahh ok. When I looked up some reviews I saw PB but wasn’t sure if they just omitted that from Kinvara review or if it was actually different foam.
Is the Kinvara softer than the Speed? I assume the roll comes from the nylon plate. I have a pair of flyknits that have the carbon plate and that forward roll is very noticeable.
Is the fit between the two similar?
Fit is same same yep, between kinvara and endorphin line
I haven’t worn the speed only the shift and the pro. The pro feels like a different shoe altogether than the kinvara. Very pronounced roll. No where near as soft and mushy like the kinvara but it isn’t harsh either. I have run a half with it just fine. Kinvara and shift are my long Sunday run training shoe. Soft enough but no speed in them whatsoever compared to the pro.
Wanted to bump this thread, I am a kinvara guy, currently have kinvara 12, love it but training for full IM and wondering if I would enjoy a tad more cushioning for my long runs. I’m intregued by the endorphin speeds but nervous to switch shoe models couple months out from IM.
Would love some more reviews of endorphin speed wearers who have also had/have kinvaras. Some reviews of the speeds say they’re weird to walk in and they require “getting used to” such that you like have to practice running in them to get used to them or something, what’s that all about? Just the roll?
My other options for cushion would be the ride or triumph and both those are heavier shoes and I don’t really dig the vibe of those. Not entertaining anything besides Saucony. I might just get a fresh pair of kinvaras after all, but I’m just curious. I’m a 715 to 815 per mile guy, are the speeds worth it vs the kinvaras, would they make me any faster? I saw one place you have to be like 630 pace before you see any difference in efficiency improvements or whatever.
I loved the Kinvara 10’s and recently got some Endorphin Speeds. There is a bit more cushion and it does feel a bit odd when walking, but once I start running they feel awesome. I don’t really notice much benefit on my slower runs (~10:00/mile), but if I get closer to 8:00/mile the Speeds start to give me that little boost.
It did not really take any time to get used to them and I will 100% be using the Endorphin Speeds for my upcoming marathon. There have been a few sales lately on the Endorphin Speeds lately so you might be able to get a decent deal.
You will definitely notice a better feel in the Speed or Pro2. While the Kinvara is a nice shoe, it will not be anywhere near as cushioned or durable. The Speed has a surprising amount of cushioning for such a light weight performance shoe. Also, IMO between the drop and the speedroll, I’d pretty much guarantee you’d run faster and feel better doing it. I’ve used mine a few times and I’m shocked at the cushion throughout the shoe while it just feels fast. The reviews saying it feels a bit weird standing are pretty much true, but once you start moving the shoe feels amazing. Go for it.
Wanted to bump this thread, I am a kinvara guy, currently have kinvara 12, love it but training for full IM and wondering if I would enjoy a tad more cushioning for my long runs. I’m intregued by the endorphin speeds but nervous to switch shoe models couple months out from IM.
My other options for cushion would be the ride or triumph and both those are heavier shoes and I don’t really dig the vibe of those. Not entertaining anything besides Saucony. I might just get a fresh pair of kinvaras after all, but I’m just curious. I’m a 715 to 815 per mile guy, are the speeds worth it vs the kinvaras, would they make me any faster? I saw one place you have to be like 630 pace before you see any difference in efficiency improvements or whatever.
Your best bet is to go try on a pair of speeds and see what you think. It’s a much different shoe than the Kinvara. We don’t see a lot of overlap between kinvara wearers and speed wearers in our customer base. But then again we don’t have a ton of runners that are only one brand loyal. They tend to be shoe loyal ie Kinvara and just to pull a shoe from my head NB 1080 loyal.
No matter what though it’s a good idea to have more than 1 pair of running shoes in the rotation & that are different from each other. Research ahs proven this to make one a more durable runner. I don’t remember what the reduction in injury risk is, yet even a 1% reduction imo is worth it. After all training consistency is the most important thing. It’s hard to get fitter when you’re not able to workout.
They tend to be shoe loyal ie Kinvara and just to pull a shoe from my head NB 1080 loyal.
Funny you mention those two shoes. I mix it up between them. The Kinvara for tempo type run and the 1080 as the cushy long run. I was using the Triumph, but they keep changing the last. Mix in the Pro for races.
So I went with both the Speeds and the Pros. I’ve been happy with both. They are noticeably different than the Kinvara but the fit has been good for me in all three shoes. The Speeds have the most cushion/softest feel. I notice it the most running steep down hills. You definitely can’t just try on the Speeds/Pros and walk around, you need to run in the shoe. Walking around feels weird until you get used to the cushion but once running I don’t notice any instability or anything negative at all. I use Kinvara as my easy day shoe and switch between Speeds and Pros for long runs and tempo-ish stuff. I had been using Speeds for long runs but have an IM coming up in September so wanted to see how the legs would feel running longer in the Pro’s (less cushy as the Speeds). So far no issues running longer distances in either shoe. Will be using the Pro’s during my IM. My easy pace is around 9min/mile and long runs are usually between 7-8min/mile. I feel like I do get a little boost from the Pro’s starting in the lower 7min/mile pace.
I was not a fan of the Kinvara, it’s a good shoe but not for me (think I was on the 9’s). I started on the Speed last January, at first I was surprised of the firmness of the shoe. As tall as it was I expected more cushioning.
I really like the shoe, to me it’s springy in the back and rolls off the toe well, I wouldn’t say it’s cushiony Personally I like rounded off shoes so it works for me. As for making me faster, I really can’t tell the difference in speed, I just like the shoe.
If you are looking for just a training shoe with cushion, the Asics Novablast might be something to look at. It’s another tall shoe but without the spring plate. That shoe is cushiony but in a good way, for me because it’s curved like the Speed.
…, the Asics Novablast might be something to look at. It’s another tall shoe but without the spring plate. That shoe is cushiony…in a good way,.
The Novablast and Gel Noosa Tri’s are 2 very underrated shoes by Asics. We can not keep the Noosa’s in stock. 80% of the people trying it on, buy it.
The Novablast isn’t as high of a % but it’s often 1 of 2 or 3 finalist shoes that people decide between. Super cushy, super springy and runs really well
Yes, I took your recommendation last spring and bought a pair of the Novablast.
I loved the Kinvara 10’s and recently got some Endorphin Speeds. There is a bit more cushion and it does feel a bit odd when walking, but once I start running they feel awesome. I don’t really notice much benefit on my slower runs (~10:00/mile), but if I get closer to 8:00/mile the Speeds start to give me that little boost.
It did not really take any time to get used to them and I will 100% be using the Endorphin Speeds for my upcoming marathon. There have been a few sales lately on the Endorphin Speeds lately so you might be able to get a decent deal.
+1 on all this.
The Speeds are squishier than the Kinvaras. While the feel is different, it didn’t take me any time to adjust; just lace them up and run…faster.
Disclaimer: Anecdotal information ahead so take with a grain of salt.
I am a big Kinvara fan. I haven’t followed shoe tech as much since COVID and simultaneously becoming more bike-centric in my workout preferences, but choosing the Endorphin Speed for more cushion than a Kinvara seems kind of an odd choice to me. From what I can tell, it seems like you might be slightly increasing the plushness but you would be introducing a whole new variable that will be much more dominant in the shoe experience. Let me elaborate.
I will say that my experience with plate shoes or rocker shoes, or whatever you want to call them is limited to the Nike brand zoom/vapor fly. Is the Endorphin Speed similar? I am certain I could tell the difference running in them. But they are another plate shoe. If you lined up all of my shoes except for my Zoom/Vapor Flys, I feel like I could classify all of them on a two axis grid of plush vs responsive. The plate shoes are a whole different animal that would require a different axis though. I believe that is because it isn’t just the suspension in the shoe materials that I am contending with, it is also the mechanics of the form of the shoe that are coming into play. I mean, truly for me, there is less of a difference between a lightweight racing flat and a max cushion NB Fresh Foam than there is between a Kinvara and my Zoom Flys. I had to learn how to run on them to utilize that shape, and I will admit that I never truly figured them out. Again, though, that might just be my experience and form.
If I were you, I would go with an old bargain bin Saucony Freedom ISO for long runs before trying an Endorphin Speed if you only have two months before your race and would like to add plushness. To me the Endorphin Speed looks like a companion training shoe to use with a plate race shoe. However, I think pretty much everyone who is looking to compete not just complete a tri should eventually get into some plate shoes both in training and in racing to see if they can get some speed from them.
having run in several versions of the Kinvara (at least 8-11), it’s a shoe I really like. I decided to get a pair of the Endorphin Shifts for longer runs, more cushion, and (hopefully) injury recovery/prevention. After switching, i’m no longer interested in running in the Kinvara. I love the speedroll on the Endorphin and the increased cushioning. To me it feels faster and more comfortable (and the Shift is NOT the ‘fast one’).
I thought about the Speeds, but couldn’t figure out why I would need one. I like the Shift for day-to-day, and picked up a pair of Pro for fast training and race day. The Pro is fantastic - I am loving it for marathons (really, any races), and will likely wear it for a 50 miler (on dirt forest service roads) this fall. I think the Speed would likely be a good in-between for someone looking for a ‘one-shoe quiver’, but if you have more than one pair that’s the one I would skip.
I use to run exclusively in the Kinvara but discovered the Freedom 3 was an all around better shoe. More cushioning, tons of grip, and way more durable. Of course Saucony completely destroyed the shoe with the Freedom 4 (turned it into a gym shoe). If you can find a pair of 3’s, get them and use them in your rotation (I have one pair left for shorter runs or rain).
My main training shoe is now the Endorphin Speed (absolutely love them). There is a small learning curve but nothing drastic. I think you’ll be fine with those running speeds (I usually run pretty similar speeds). I noticed a small increase in speed with a similar effort, but the biggest gain was knowing I could maintain that speed a lot longer than in the Kinvaras or Freedoms.
I love the Speed so much, I actually have to think really hard about whether or not I should even use the Endorphin Pro for an IM run. The Speed might be the perfect IM run shoe for myself.