https://swimswam.com/biomechanics-study-kicking-may-bring-no-benefit-in-freestyle/.
**“**The Japanese study found that kicking water indeed provided a propulsive force when swimming at a relatively low speed of 1.1m per second, or 1:30.91/100m. However, when the swimming speed increased to 1.3m per second, or 1:06.92/100m, the leg movements ‘hampered water flow and produced resistance equivalent to the cube of the speed ratio.’”
1:30/100m is a relatively low speed? Yeah, sure.
**“**The Japanese study found that kicking water indeed provided a propulsive force when swimming at a relatively low speed of 1.1m per second, or 1:30.91/100m. However, when the swimming speed increased to 1.3m per second, or 1:06.92/100m, the leg movements ‘hampered water flow and produced resistance equivalent to the cube of the speed ratio.’”
1:30/100m is a relatively low speed? Yeah, sure.
For a swimmer, yes.
The total immersion guy preaches this. I think he says kicking only makes up 3% of propulsion, if I remember correctly. He basically recommends a flutter kick to facilitate hip rotation to stay streamlined.
The total immersion guy preaches this. I think he says kicking only makes up 3% of propulsion, if I remember correctly. He basically recommends a flutter kick to facilitate hip rotation to stay streamlined.
Not sure about what Terry Laughlin actually stated, but I have heard the facts are no more than 5%. Obviously a contributor at world class levels, but not worth working much on for many of us. Rotation assistance is the prime benefit for most.
Ok if this is true
What would you say about a coach for triathletes who recommends approx 25% of all swim workouts to be kicking with a kick board?
25% WAarm up
25% cool down
25% main set
Last week my foot was hurt so I couldn’t kick. I didn’t use a pull buoy, just didn’t kick. My kick is super weak and inefficient. In fact, I use swimming as recovery from the leg intensive biking and running.
Even with my worthless kick (have never done kick sets), my time was still 8 seconds slower per 100 yards. That adds up over half and full IM distances.
Ok if this is true
What would you say about a coach for triathletes who recommends approx 25% of all swim workouts to be kicking with a kick board?
25% WAarm up
25% cool down
25% main set
A waste of time. Frankly my opinion is that kicking with a board has no relevance to actually kicking while swimming. If kicking at all, use a snorkel and no board so you at least simulate an actual position you’d be in while actually swimming. That said, the “old school” techniques die hard. I love seeing the old mythical techniques now being disputed, a la bilateral breathing, breathe control, funny strokes, and kick sets.
Last week my foot was hurt so I couldn’t kick. I didn’t use a pull buoy, just didn’t kick. My kick is super weak and inefficient. In fact, I use swimming as recovery from the leg intensive biking and running.
Even with my worthless kick (have never done kick sets), my time was still 8 seconds slower per 100 yards. That adds up over half and full IM distances.
Too many negatives there to make an actual correlation. Obviously the pain kept you from a kick that helped rotation. Hope your foot feels better soon…
Last week my foot was hurt so I couldn’t kick. I didn’t use a pull buoy, just didn’t kick. My kick is super weak and inefficient. In fact, I use swimming as recovery from the leg intensive biking and running.
Even with my worthless kick (have never done kick sets), my time was still 8 seconds slower per 100 yards. That adds up over half and full IM distances.
kicking reduces drag by lifting your legs, thats a different thing to actually providing a propulsive force.
you can keep your legs up with a light 2-beat kick, saving energy over a stronger and faster kick that may or may not provide a significant propulsion.
a bad kick can actually move you backwards, i’ve been there!
The total immersion guy preaches this. I think he says kicking only makes up 3% of propulsion, if I remember correctly. He basically recommends a flutter kick to facilitate hip rotation to stay streamlined.
Not sure about what Terry Laughlin actually stated, but I have heard the facts are no more than 5%. Obviously a contributor at world class levels, but not worth working much on for many of us. Rotation assistance is the prime benefit for most.
I went back and watched some of his videos and I think is misspoke. The 3% he talked about is that amount of energy that gets put towards propulsion by recreational swimmers, compared to 80% by dolphins and around 9% by micheal Phelps.
I couldn’t find his figure for how much kicking aids in propulsion, though I remember it wasn’t very high. I’ve had good luck using his flutter kick to improve my swim and manage my heart rate.
Is adding propulsion the objective or is it timing and rhythm of the stroke?
Ok if this is true
What would you say about a coach for triathletes who recommends approx 25% of all swim workouts to be kicking with a kick board?
25% Warm up
25% cool down
25% main set
A waste of time. Frankly my opinion is that kicking with a board has no relevance to actually kicking while swimming. If kicking at all, use a snorkel and no board so you at least simulate an actual position you’d be in while actually swimming. That said, the “old school” techniques die hard. I love seeing the old mythical techniques now being disputed, a la bilateral breathing, breathe control, funny strokes, and kick sets.
And yet the fastest swimmers on the planet continue to do kick sets, often with kick boards. In his build-up to the 8 golds, Phelps did 5000-6000 yd all kick workouts every week to 2 weeks and generally kicked probably around 20-25% of his average workout.
One study proves nothing and further, this subject has been debated ad nauseum over the past, oh, 70-80 yrs. Doc Counsilman, the legendary coach at Indiana, did his PhD thesis on this very subject, back in 1949-51, with similar conclusions to this 2018 study. Despite this, his fastest swimmer, Mark Spitz, could kick a 100 yd in under 1:00 using the k-board. And to this day, most, but not all, of the top freestylers have very strong kicks. Since there are no organized kicking races, hard to say what % are fast kickers and what % are not, but it would very interesting to see some data on that. 
Ok if this is true
What would you say about a coach for triathletes who recommends approx 25% of all swim workouts to be kicking with a kick board?
25% Warm up
25% cool down
25% main set
A waste of time. Frankly my opinion is that kicking with a board has no relevance to actually kicking while swimming. If kicking at all, use a snorkel and no board so you at least simulate an actual position you’d be in while actually swimming. That said, the “old school” techniques die hard. I love seeing the old mythical techniques now being disputed, a la bilateral breathing, breathe control, funny strokes, and kick sets.
And yet the fastest swimmers on the planet continue to do kick sets, often with kick boards. In his build-up to the 8 golds, Phelps did 5000-6000 yd all kick workouts every week to 2 weeks and generally kicked probably around 20-25% of his average workout.
One study proves nothing and further, this subject has been debated ad nauseum over the past, oh, 70-80 yrs. Doc Counsilman, the legendary coach at Indiana, did his PhD thesis on this very subject, back in 1949-51, with similar conclusions to this 2018 study. Despite this, his fastest swimmer, Mark Spitz, could kick a 100 yd in under 1:00 using the k-board. And to this day, most, but not all, of the top freestylers have very strong kicks. Since there are no organized kicking races, hard to say what % are fast kickers and what % are not, but it would very interesting to see some data on that.
And, as was STATED earlier, when one is looking for that extra 1 or 2% that puts one in the gold medal category and no other easy gains are possible, it matters. The said, it has VERY little relevance to 99% of triathletes. Phelps and events under 2 minutes and Oly, 70.3 and IM distances have little in common with those races.
You can argue the propulsion science all you want, I’ll continue to kick and continue to have my athletes do lots of kicking. A strong efficient kick for a triathlete will lift the hips high in the water and improve the body position. I don’t ask them to kick at their fastest on race day, I ask them to develop their kick so they can feel the correct body position. More kicking in practice leads to the development of an efficient kick, especially in triathletes with a running background who traditionally have locked hips. That efficient kick is what I am looking for, max propulsion, minimal waste.
Ok if this is true
What would you say about a coach for triathletes who recommends approx 25% of all swim workouts to be kicking with a kick board?
25% WAarm up
25% cool down
25% main set
I don’t know the right amount, but the swimmers who skip kicking are like runners who skip strides and wonder why they don’t do as well as they could.
It’s been a long time since I’ve been a swimmer in any capacity, but the claim is sort of baffling to me. It always felt almost opposite, like my backstroke arms were serving mostly as stabilization for the power from the kick.
Back when I could do a ~57s 100yd backstroke, after one (light) swim practice I decided to see just what my flutter kick could do. I grabbed a kickboard, and decided as the “rules” that I’d execute the pull-in “turn” at the end of each length when the kickboard got to the T. Just trying it for giggles at the end of a workout, 66 seconds. Seemed at the time to confirm to me that my kick couldn’t be all that weak.
Whatever.
The total immersion guy preaches this. I think he says kicking only makes up 3% of propulsion, if I remember correctly. He basically recommends a flutter kick to facilitate hip rotation to stay streamlined.
Not sure about what Terry Laughlin actually stated, but I have heard the facts are no more than 5%. Obviously a contributor at world class levels, but not worth working much on for many of us. Rotation assistance is the prime benefit for most.
Fwiw, over the years I have watched pro athletes during kick sets with a particular eye and interest. Time and time again I see good kickers in the pool translate to better open-water ability relative to their pool swimming ability. No doubt the faster you are going the less efficient kicking is, and we are all limited by time in training, but kicking is a great way to breakup the set. I also like it to stretch out the body and I think it is good way to harden up the body, along with facilitating a larger of range of motion for the hamstrings which translates into better and more relaxed running for me.
In regard to hardening of the body, I found that during many of my age-group Ironmans that I would either almost cramp up or slightly cramp coming out of my Ironman swims. When I transitioned to a professional I definitely did more kicking and that seemed to take out a lot of those issues with cramping in spite of the fact that most of my pro swims were swimming above my ability and most of my age-group swims were at or below my ability.
Ok if this is true
What would you say about a coach for triathletes who recommends approx 25% of all swim workouts to be kicking with a kick board?
25% Warm up
25% cool down
25% main set
A waste of time. Frankly my opinion is that kicking with a board has no relevance to actually kicking while swimming. If kicking at all, use a snorkel and no board so you at least simulate an actual position you’d be in while actually swimming. That said, the “old school” techniques die hard. I love seeing the old mythical techniques now being disputed, a la bilateral breathing, breathe control, funny strokes, and kick sets.
And yet the fastest swimmers on the planet continue to do kick sets, often with kick boards. In his build-up to the 8 golds, Phelps did 5000-6000 yd all kick workouts every week to 2 weeks and generally kicked probably around 20-25% of his average workout.
When triathletes are already doing 50-100,000yds/week of swimming, and when a strong underwater fly kick every 30 seconds is critical to success in races, and when kicking for two hours a week brings a better return than an extra 15 run miles or 40 bike miles per week, triathletes can add as much kicking to their workouts as they want.
but the swimmers who skip kicking are like runners who skip strides and wonder why they don’t do as well as they could
Most triathletes as swimmers not doing well has less to do with their kick sets and more to do with their overall yardage. Likely the same for runners and strides. Kicking is fruit, but it’s hanging darn low if you’re only willing to get in the water 2-3x per week.