I’m a long time speedplay user and am starting to wonder if the slight ‘outward tilting’ I am feeling on the shoe is wasted power/comfort. It feels as if my foot/shoe is trying to tilt downward.
The questions are:
do you feel like you are more stable with a wider platform such as the Look Keo or Shimano provides?
and
do you run out of T1 in you shoes before getting on the bike and if so how well do the cleats hold up to wear?
Thanks in advance for your responses,
Chuck
I have never used speedplay so I can’t help you there.
But the cleats hold up pretty well. You can also purchase some that have grippy rubber on them. These hold up better and the grippy stuff actually works. The regular cleats get beat up quickly if you walk in them but they do hold up pretty well. I abuse mine and they last for a really long time–like years.
I’ve only ever used LOOK pedals, original and now keo. The cleats do last a long time if you don’t walk too much in them - no news there I’m sure. Personally I don’t run with biking shoes, why would you do that?
I am a sales rep for Look, so keep that in mind.
If it tells you anything, virtually every pedal manufacturer, including Look, is going wider with their new pedals. Wider is better for stability and power transfer.
With the old Delta Cleats, and the older Keo cleats running into or out of transition was a bit dicey, but not really any more than with your speedplay cleats. The new Keo Grip cleats, that are currently shipping with all Keo pedals and also are available as replacements, make walking or running in the cleats easy. They get great traction on asphalt, concrete, and even tile. They also hold up much better to walking than just plastic cleats.
If you look at the weight of the entire system, pedals, cleats, hardware, Look Keo is one of the lightest pedal systems on the market, as well as having a very wide, stiff platform to ensure great power transfer. Great pedals. If you haven’t bought anything yet, you may want to wait on the new Keo2Max, that will be out very soon, with an even wider platform than the Keo. You can check out www.lookcycle-usa.com if you want more info.
I’m a long time speedplay user and am starting to wonder if the slight ‘outward tilting’ I am feeling on the shoe is wasted power/comfort. It feels as if my foot/shoe is trying to tilt downward.
The questions are:
do you feel like you are more stable with a wider platform such as the Look Keo or Shimano provides?
and
do you run out of T1 in you shoes before getting on the bike and if so how well do the cleats hold up to wear?
Thanks in advance for your responses,
Chuck
Chuck, I have used Speedplay since about 1991 or '92, until this year. The best part was the float & instant clip in. This year I went to the KEO Carbon/Ti pedals, and instantly no more hot spots, and MUCH better stability feeling. The extra seconds to clip in due to the weighted side of the KEO is more than balanced out by what I feel as better power transmission. I actually DID notice my NP go up slightly (very slightly) from what I think is due to the lack of “ice-skating” with KEOs. Although I use the RED cleats with float, I seem to be grounded to the pedals better. Speedplays were nice and I still may use them at some point, but right now the KEOs trump the Speedplays even after nearly 2 decades of using them. The cleats on Speedplays don’t hold up that well…I installed new ones every year. I’d be interested in how the new soon to be released KEO II’s version will feel like (they may already be sold somewhere I don’t know…) This is just my opinion here…I checked this forum as well before I installed the KEOs (and other internet sites), so in the end it is preference.
With the old Delta Cleats, and the older Keo cleats running into or out of transition was a bit dicey, but not really any more than with your speedplay cleats. The new Keo Grip cleats, that are currently shipping with all Keo pedals and also are available as replacements, make walking or running in the cleats easy. They get great traction on asphalt, concrete, and even tile. They also hold up much better to walking than just plastic cleats.
Are these grip cleats compatible with the first generation Keo pedals or only the new ones? I currently use covers for running out of T1 but not having to worry about this would be even easier.
Pedal/cleat choices aside - Have you had your pedal/cleat system fitted properly? Most(75%+) cyclists need some form of varus wedging for optimal comfort and power transfer. Read more here:
The best fitters, Dan Empfield and the folks at Bike Fit are big advocates of this. Surprisingly few triathletes actually get this done, but it could be one of the biggest bang-for-bucks things you do with your bike! Seriously!
I’ve tried speedplays in the past, and I couldn’t get used to the ‘ice skating’ float.
I have two pairs of shoes, my ‘comfort’ shoes that have red cleats for longer rides and a pair of tri-specific shoes with the grey cleats.
Once you get the cleats with less float dialed in, there really is no perceived difference between the two.
I always clip my shoes into pedals and run barefoot or socked out of transition.
Cleat wear hasn’t been a problem, but I seldom take more than a few steps before taking my shoes off (I’ve never understood the folks that finish up a ride and walk around for hours in their shoes and spandex).
I’ve got three pairs of Keo carbons and love 'em. This is not a paid avertisement.
+1 for the Speedplay-to-Keo transition. I found the same thing as the OP, i.e. that my feet felt like they were tipping out laterally with the Speedplay. I also found the cleats a PITA to maintain; grit and screw tightness have huge influence on the float, and replacements are expensive.
Keos are much better IMHO; noticeably wider platform, better stability, easier walkability (rubber cleats are compatible with all Keos AFAIK; new Keo Maxes will work with old cleats, right?), better cleat durability and cheaper cleat replacement costs.
Fleck is right about cleat canting though; if you find your foot tipping laterally on the Speedplays, you might be a candidate for a varus wedge, and if so switching to Keos will exacerbate the problem. I now use a wedge, and found that when I switched the wider, more “locked in” feeling of the Keos made it REALLY clear that I needed a wedge. With the speedplays I was able to fudge it a bit due to increases lateral play in the pedals.
Most(75%+) cyclists need some form of varus wedging for optimal comfort and power transfer.
I’ve used these; never noticed a difference. I actually use them down in the direct opposite way recommended to get my knees to point inward while in the aero position. More snake oil, in my experience.
As for the OP, the real question should be whether you need float or not. I thought I did and jumped all over the rotational cleats when Look first made them. Then I bought Keos after not liking either the new Time RXS pedals, or some M2s that had a lot of float. I liked the grey Keo pedal with less float and eventually decided to go back to the original black fixed cleat. It is so much better for me and lasts longer as well because it does not move back and forth against your pedal.
Chad
Yes.
All Keo cleats, regardless of generation, work with all Keo pedals (regardless of generation), including the new Keo2Max.
I’ve been using the Keo Carbon (not Ti) for three seasons. I like them better than the older Look pedals, but I found the way they hang before clipping in a little weird at first. I had my cleats adjusted and a couple of wedges put in when I had my bike fitted. I think that made a difference in terms of comfort over long rides. I’m not a fan of having a lot of float, so I’ve never considered Speedplays.
Does anyone know if it’s possible to get a replacement “nut” for the bolt that holds the springs? Mine fell off somehow. My pedals are in perfect condition and I’m reluctant to have to throw them out for want of a $0.10 piece of hardware.
How do the Keo carbon pedals compare to the cheaper (less expensive) plastic keos in terms of pedal wear from the cleat floating on the platform? I’m a Shimano user and they moved their pedal plate from plastic to a steel platform and now it seems like they don’t float as well becuase the plate doesn’t wear anymore, so I’m in the market for a new pedal.
Thanks
Big fan of keo’s. Have classics on road & carbons on tri.
Like the wider platform of the keo vs speedplay, and could never get used the ice skating feeling of the speedplay float.
I use the grey cleat and love the float it gives me. As others have said, unless your’re running on linoleum, you should be ok with stability.
The grip cleats are even better. They are great for walking in, and I personally think they give you a bit more traction on the pedal itself, though that could just be in my head.
The rubber part of the the grip cleat will last you at least an entire season with a decent amount of walking, and the original cleat will last you a season or 2 with a good amount of walking.
I like the way the weighting of the pedal hangs, I can get in easily by feel with no looking.
I would highly recommend them. Oh, and the memory tab feature is a nice plus as well.
I have Keo’s on my road bike as well as my tri bike, love them. I had a mechanical issue last summer where I ended up walking in my bike shoes for quite some time, the cleats didn’t make it but this was a pretty long walk.
I prefer the wider platform for sure, I can tell a difference after switching to Keo from Speedplay, but that is just me. A stiffer shoe helps too.
The new Keo2Max has not been out long enough for me to give you real long term feedback at this point, but on the few rides I have on them I don’t really notice a difference in how the cleat floats on the platform, they seem basically the same. I am sure that the stainless steel plate will be more durable. If I had to say is it tighter or looser, I would honestly say looser. I am using the “grip” cleat.
I wish I could give you more feedback, but I just received my first set of Keo2max a couple of weeks ago, and I am in the middle of training for a marathon right now and haven’t been riding much. I may try riding with 1 Keo2max and 1 regular Keo and see if I can feel a difference. I am already riding with 2 different pedals, 1 Keo2Max carbon, and 1 Keo2Max because I am using the other side of each as samples to show dealers, so switching to yet another different pedal wouldn’t be any worse!
Hope this helps.
I used Look for years, then switched everything over to Speedplay for many years, then I went back to Looks. I couldn’t believe how much I loved the Looks over the Speedplay. I can feel a difference in the platform as well as the float. Speedplays had me fighting heel float for years and I never really noticed until I went back to the black cleat with the Looks. I love no float and Look pedals! I feel much more comfortable and the lack of fighting heel float helped me alot.