So I changed the setting on my Garmin 305 from average pace to current pace. I wanted to see where my pace was increasing or decreasing. It was amazing to see how my pace fluctuates. For instance, I start my run on the top of a hill ( out my front door) and go downhill for 1/4 mile. From there I head uphill for approx 1/3mile. I couldn’t believe that I was doing a 7:45 pace on the downhill. Do most people use an “internal clock” for their pace? I’ve used HR before and maybe I should go back to it.
“I’ve used HR before and maybe I should go back to it.”
HR is NOT a good way to judge momentary pace. It often lags as much as 30 seconds behind increases or decreases in effort.
Don’t worry so much about the momentary pace…you will vary pace according to terrain. Get to know your perceived effort. Use it to judge your output…don’t go by pace alone.
In fact, you might leave the watch at home for a year and see how you get to know your pacing and effort a lot better.
I have: (1) Time (2) Distance (3) Current pace and (4) average pace on mine. I have a goal pace when I set out and use the current to help keep me honest. As an example, after a uphill and it flattens out, I notice my pace is slower than it should be. A little effort and I’m back to where I want to be. My “internal clock” lies to me.
For sure your pace will fluctuate. Part of the reason is small inclines and declines on your path. Worry about the avg, not so much the current unless you are way off.
yeah, running off current pace seems pretty stupid. I fail to see why your instantaneous pace is even important; race results are not ordered that way…
Instant pace is normally pretty decent but it is not something that I put a tremendous amount of trust in. There is a 1/4mi section of flat road that I run 3-4X a week that ALWAYS shows my pace roughly 45sec slower. Trail running in trees, fuhgettaboudit.
Have you never looked at unsmoothed pace on the Garmin software graph? It might as well be an ECG it fluctuates so much. Also another reason why using GPS to ding people for drafting is beyond stupid.
I feel that the current speed does not mean much, due to terrain and other variables. I run all my runs based on average pace and or effort. In an ironman or any other race, I do not care what my current pace is, just the overall average ;-).
So for those who train by avg pace - do you also display avg HR (assuming you’re tracking HR at all)? Just curious, since that seems like the appropriate pairing but nobody mentioned it.
I display current pace, current HR, and total distance on my 405. However I really only check the HR and pace when I’m on an extended flat section. I have poor natural pace perception. So for me, avg HR doesn’t seem that useful. Case in point: Later in a longer run if avg pace was slower than I expected, I might speed up. But I might speed up too far beyond my workout goal pace/HR and notice it too late since the avg pace wouldn’t change for a while. Again, this is due to my crappy internal speed-o-meter.
Depending upon the environmental conditions you could see +/- 15bpm at the same pace.
You should have workout goal paces not workout HR paces. One of those variables is an objective measurement one of them is a more subjective measurement.
You should be looking for a trend that shows a decrease in avg pace over time over the same routes.
Depending upon the environmental conditions you could see +/- 15bpm at the same pace.
Agreed. However I run the same route almost every day, at almost the same time of day, in weather that doesn’t vary by much (coastal San Diego). So the environment stays relatively constant. Not saying your point isn’t valid - just that I rarely see large HR swings when putting out the same perceived effort or pace.
You should have workout goal paces not workout HR paces. One of those variables is an objective measurement one of them is a more subjective measurement.
I use pace and HR combined, not only HR. Through years of experimentation, I’ve found that planning based on both variables works well for me. For racing, though, I have learned to toss HR out the window and trust my training to allow me to hit my goal pace.
You should be looking for a trend that shows a decrease in avg pace over time over the same routes.
Doesn’t that assume my perceived effort (and/or HR) would not be increasing concurrent with the faster paces? Is there value in pursuing a faster pace without a intertemporal effort baseline (based on PE or HR) for comparison purposes? Psychologically, I can let my ego take over and allow me to continue trying to get faster over my regular running routes during the training season. But does this do me any good if I’m increasing my effort commensurately just to hit those faster paces? Again, this assumes I can establish a relatively consistent HR/effort baseline due to minimal environmental variances over time.
I don’t mean to sound argumentative. I value your opinion and am just asking the questions in the hopes of learning something here. Thanks.
…and trust my training to allow me to hit my goal pace.
That is why pace is more important then hr, especially if that goal pace is based upon what your training says you can do. If you wag’d it then you might get lucky or you might not.
Doesn’t that assume my perceived effort (and/or HR) would not be increasing concurrent with the faster paces? Is there value in pursuing a faster pace without a intertemporal effort baseline (based on PE or HR) for comparison purposes? Psychologically, I can let my ego take over and allow me to continue trying to get faster over my regular running routes during the training season. But does this do me any good if I’m increasing my effort commensurately just to hit those faster paces? Again, this assumes I can establish a relatively consistent HR/effort baseline due to minimal environmental variances over time.
Why would your PE increase as you got fitter? Is it harder to run at a faster consistent day in day out pace when you are more fit? If today you average 8:00 for your daily run (excluding tempo/LT/VO2 workouts unless you average them over a long period of time to smooth it out) and now you average 7:30 a year later, your fitness has climbed, your relative level of effort has stayed the same. Why? Because you are more fit.
For instance, I used to average 6.8 miles in 50 min for my daily average training pace or 7:20 per mile. Currently I run 7 miles in that 50 min on average or just under 7:10. Same effort no harder, no easier. I’ve just gotten faster. My PE has remained the same. I’d even say if I had a hrm and if I used it, that my avg hr would be the same given the same environmental conditions as when I was less fit.
When I lived in phoenix and used a hrm, it wasn’t uncommon for me to average 150 in the winter and 165 in the summer for the exact 6.8 miles in 50 minutes. If I trained by a hrm then I’d actually have to slow down to get my hr into whatever zone my winter avg hr was in, or in the winter I’d have to be hauling ass to get my hr into whatever zone my heat of the summer hr would be in. Pace is a much more accurate measurement of what is required of me then HR in this sort of situation to determine what sort of training effect I’m imparting upon myself.
I’m not saying the PE would increase. What I’m saying is that if my definition of training “success” was to run the same route (under the same basic conditions) faster at time B versus time A, then I would probably just run slightly harder over time to ensure my “success”.
Maybe my actual effort to hit that pace would be lower over time; maybe it wouldn’t. But how would I know unless I established some reasonable and quantifiable baseline? I’m not saying HR is the perfect answer, but given my relatively steady training environment, I would view HR as slightly more discrete and quantifiable than PE. My internal PE meter is not as good as some people’s. However my HR zones tend to have a pretty predictable correlation with my various paces, and I do see improvement over time. So I feel pretty good about using HR as a reference point for my pace at different points in the training macro cycle.
I have Total Time (used to time food intake on longer ride/runs), Current Pace (this is what I watch), Ave Pace (this is what a check periodically), and Distance (this is what I use to tell myself it will all be over soon on my 305. I always target an overall ave pace for the workout but watch the current pace to see when I am slacking mentally. This helps me stay on track especially on longer runs. It is also a good way to get in hill intervals aka if you maintain the same pace up a hill as you just were on a flat, that means your busting ass!
Doing so you’ll often hit your pace goal and get a HR Chart like the below for a moderate hilly / rolling course. Guess where the hills were! If you repeat the course once or twice a week, using the Ave Pace and HR profile, you can get a real good baseline on how your fitness is progressing.
Just out of curiosity why don’t you use your alerts to keep your pace? If that is ulitmately what you are trying to do. I set mine to alert me if I run faster than 7:15 and slower than 7:45. I only display current pace and distance and then on my second section I have AVG Pace/AVG HR and check that about every 15-20mins. I prefer to use the alerts to keep me in the pace range I am shooting for and when I am only doing a run I change my recording setting to every second instead of every 3.5 secs. Keeps your pace more accurate when viewing current pace.
Current Pace on the FR305 (or any GPS device for that matter) is not accurate. You’d be much better off using Lap Pace with short-ish laps (like TheDC recommended above). I use 1/4-mile laps; and have my primary display set up for Time, Distance, Lap Pace and HR. I have a secondary display set up identically except Average Pace instead of Lap Pace. I will use the primary display to make sure I don’t go out to fast and the secondary display when I’m going for broke (like at the end of a race).
Keep in mind that Lap Pace starts recalculating at the beginning of each lap. So, it suffers from the same faults as Current Pace for the first 10-15 seconds after each new lap starts. Solution, just ignore it during that time.
For me, there are 1 or 2 runs a week where pace matters and I could see using a gps (tempo runs on the road). Other than that, I would leave the gps at home and run by PE. Trying to hit a given pace day in and day out would cause me to run too fast some days, too easy on others. In my case, that means the first few miles of every run are ~7:45-8/mile, and then usually drops down after that to anywhere from 7:10-7:30.
How fast you run on avg during the entire week isn’t going to affect how fast you race, it is the other way around.
For sure your pace will fluctuate. Part of the reason is small inclines and declines on your path. Worry about the avg, not so much the current unless you are way off.
Thanks for the replies. I do usually run with average pace as a setting but changed it to current pace to get an idea how my overall run looks. The only thing I don’t like about avg pace is as the distance increases, you have to increase your pace that much more to decrease the avg. pace. It seems that watching the current pasc will prevent me from being way off. I do like the idea of using the alerts to keep me in pace range that I’m aiming for.
I do exactly what Steve does (avg on one screen and instantaneous on another). I’ve done autolap on the mile for longer runs. I tried going with 1/2 and 1/4 mile laps but I kept getting confused about how far I’d been and how that fit my plan and didn’t have my display setup properly but I bet that would work.
90% of the time I run on instantaneous mode though. I realize it will fluctuate, but it does let me know right away when I’m slacking or getting sloppy.
I do wish they would add a smoothed semi-instantaneous pace in between those two options without the recalculating issue mentioned.
on my 305. I always target an overall ave pace for the workout but watch the current pace to see when I am slacking mentally. This helps me stay on track especially on longer runs. It is also a good way to get in hill intervals aka if you maintain the same pace up a hill as you just were on a flat, that means your busting ass!