Quick background: did my first Ironman in late July (10:58 with 1:06 / 6:05 / 3:38 plus transitions). I am now focussed on the Lanzarote Marathon in 12 weeks and going for sub 3. In 2017 I ran 3:04 on a not-flat course in May, did a 70.3 in 5:12 in August, then trained for the Malaga Marathon in December. Training and a 1:22:30 half marathon suggested I was on target for about 2:58, but I got sick the week before the race and my body gave up at 32k – I limped in to a 3:07 finish.
Since race I have done some walking and gym stuff before slowly building the running back up. My question is how to arrange my week and training in order to lose the minimal amount of swim and bike fitness. I fully accept that changing my focus to running is going to result in the loss of some fitness. Does anyone have any experience in this? Would something like TrainerRoad (perhaps an FTP focussed block) help me focus on something different to bike volume while I have less time? My anticipated run schedule is something like: Mon – 10k/HM pace work. Tues – easy. Wed – tempo. Thurs – rest. Fri – easy. Sat – long run (building in tempo blocks later in cycle). Sun – rest.
I would be grateful for any insight people might have - thanks.
My primary focus is on 70.3 but last year I decided to dedicate my training over winter to qualifying for Boston in January. I kicked off the training in November and had 10 solid weeks of marathon training. Obviously the run volume went up, but I think my swimming volume actually went up as well. We used swims for both recovery and a chance to get some additional threshold work in without having to pound the legs. Almost all of the bikes were easy recovery spins, with maybe one interval session a week. After the marathon (in which I successfully qualified with a 2:57) we hit the cycling HARD. Within 6-8 weeks I was right back where I had left off at the end of the year and my power has continued to improve all season. We didn’t let the bump in run fitness from the marathon training go away either which has really benefited my triathlon results this year.
That’s really helpful, and congratulations! What was the ratio like of swim/bike/run you did whilst training for Boston? I agree re the training bump, I am not a strong cyclist so having had the boost to running fitness it really allowed me to work on the bike and not worry about losing too much for run.
It was something like ~5 runs/week (30-40 miles, max week was 50), ~4 swims each ~2000-2500 yds, ~3 rides/week usually 1-2 hour easy spins. I had some 3+ hour very easy rides during a few recovery weeks.
My $0.02 you can do all the pull work you want in the pool and not adversely impact your run training and sometimes it seems like an easy kick set actually aids recovery. With regards to the bike, you’ll have to bring your volume down significantly. The last run heavy block I did consisted of swims in the morning and runs or run/bike bricks in the evening. I train using the BarryP plan so my week looks like this:
Monday: off
Tuesday: easy run
Wednesday: tempo run
Thursday: easy run
Friday: medium run
Saturday: easy run
Sunday: long run
During my last run heavy block I did 2x20s after my runs on Tuesday and Thursday and an easy one hour spin after my run on Saturday. My FTP actually improved a bit during this time.
Thanks. Yeah, I just can’t see how I’m going to reach my running goals with any more than minimal cycling volume e.g. recovery spins and maybe some short efforts. To be honest, I hadn’t really thought much about the swimming at all but there’s obviously an opportunity there to use it for both recovery and additional threshold work with no impact, as suggested above.
I’m in marathon training mode right now, and I’m pretty much letting the swim and bike fall to the wayside. I don’t have any more tri’s this year, so I don’t need to keep up on those. This allows a singular focus on the running, and my form/pace are much better than when I was multi-sport training. If I had more time available, I’d do the other sports too, but with the time I have, I’m just running.
I am getting in one ride a week - commuting home which allows me to run in to work the following day (as my long run of the week). My bike pace isn’t bad on the commuting ride, so I figure it wouldn’t take too much to be back closer to prime shape on the bike if I had to.
If I had to get ready for a tri (non IM distance), I figure it take about 3 weeks in the pool to get in “good enough” shape. So, there’s no urgency there.
That’s a pragmatic view to take and one that is tempting. If he priority is the marathon, I should make sure i do that training well and if other things fit in that’s great.
Good job on results to date. You definitely have the speed and endurance to go sub 3:00. Consider swimming one or two times a week. The swimming will do four things: 1). build arm strength 2). balance your leg muscles to all the running 3.) flush out lactic acid from hard runs 4.) Boost lung capacity. For the latter, do some 25 – 100M builds to boost your breathing needs. Easier on the body than running sprints or hard intervals. The two in the middle are great for preventative maintenance for your body. The arm strength will benefit you towards the middle and end of the marathon on race day. In the middle of the race you can focus on running with your arms to keep the run speed up against others. Near the end of the race, the arms will keep your legs moving to the finish line when you think you just can’t go any further. The stronger runner will always prevail on race day when all else is equal.
Jump back in the saddle on days your muscles don’t want to run. Ride 2-3 hours. This will still give you a workout without the run load on the body. Suggest not running more than 16-17 miles for your long run. Anything longer will breakdown your muscle mass and put unneeded stress on your bones. Your bike ride will simulate the time duration of the marathon while the workout will stimulate your heart, lungs, and muscles for the effort.
Both swimming and biking will give you a break from the running while keeping your tri fires burning. Let’s us know how you go.
My $0.02 you can do all the pull work you want in the pool and not adversely impact your run training and sometimes it seems like an easy kick set actually aids recovery. With regards to the bike, you’ll have to bring your volume down significantly. The last run heavy block I did consisted of swims in the morning and runs or run/bike bricks in the evening. I train using the BarryP plan so my week looks like this:
Monday: off
Tuesday: easy run
Wednesday: tempo run
Thursday: easy run
Friday: medium run
Saturday: easy run
Sunday: long run
During my last run heavy block I did 2x20s after my runs on Tuesday and Thursday and an easy one hour spin after my run on Saturday. My FTP actually improved a bit during this time.
Very similar plan and results for me, also. I actually cut my riding down to 1 long ride for about 3 weeks while swimming 5x, and running 6x, barryP style. My FTP went up during this time, as well…I’m within 3 watts of my FTP last year at this time, on less than half the bike training.
Quick background: did my first Ironman in late July (10:58 with 1:06 / 6:05 / 3:38 plus transitions). I am now focussed on the Lanzarote Marathon in 12 weeks and going for sub 3. In 2017 I ran 3:04 on a not-flat course in May, did a 70.3 in 5:12 in August, then trained for the Malaga Marathon in December. Training and a 1:22:30 half marathon suggested I was on target for about 2:58, but I got sick the week before the race and my body gave up at 32k – I limped in to a 3:07 finish.
Since race I have done some walking and gym stuff before slowly building the running back up. My question is how to arrange my week and training in order to lose the minimal amount of swim and bike fitness. I fully accept that changing my focus to running is going to result in the loss of some fitness. Does anyone have any experience in this? Would something like TrainerRoad (perhaps an FTP focussed block) help me focus on something different to bike volume while I have less time? My anticipated run schedule is something like: Mon – 10k/HM pace work. Tues – easy. Wed – tempo. Thurs – rest. Fri – easy. Sat – long run (building in tempo blocks later in cycle). Sun – rest.
I would be grateful for any insight people might have - thanks.
My own garmin data makes it pretty clear that acute swim and bike performance (swim in particular) decline predictably with increased run training, despite virtually no change in swim/bike training. Here, I’m distinguishing between acute training performance and chronic swim fitness. What appears to be happening is that increased run training compromises the paces I can achieve in practice, but if given a proper “taper” for a swim competition, I would have lost very little swim “fitness”. My suggestion would be to follow others’ advice on optimizing your run training for the marathon, while secondarily maintaining as much of your swim/bike training as you can comfortably manage. Another trend that my garmin data reveals is that increasing swim/bike training has very little impact on both my acute and chronic run performance. Perhaps others can comment on these observations.
Thanks for the detailed reply. Really interesting getting the insight from others about the benefits of swimming to running, with the cycling I feel more aware of potential crossover benefits but not being an experienced triathlete the crossover with swimming is less obvious. There seems to be resounding support to keep up or even focus more on swimming than normal - very interesting!
My own garmin data makes it pretty clear that acute swim and bike performance (swim in particular) decline predictably with increased run training, despite virtually no change in swim/bike training. Here, I’m distinguishing between acute training performance and chronic swim fitness. What appears to be happening is that increased run training compromises the paces I can achieve in practice, but if given a proper “taper” for a swim competition, I would have lost very little swim “fitness”. My suggestion would be to follow others’ advice on optimizing your run training for the marathon, while secondarily maintaining as much of your swim/bike training as you can comfortably manage. Another trend that my garmin data reveals is that increasing swim/bike training has very little impact on both my acute and chronic run performance. Perhaps others can comment on these observations.
This also fits with my experience, and data. When I want to get faster at swimming I have to drop my run volume. I cannot build both Run and Swim at the same time. As you note, the swim gets slower…or, at best, stays the same. Bike doesn’t really seem to matter, unless I dig WAAY too deep.
I’ve found that I can maintain some semblance of swim fitness for a fairly long time on 2x/week @ 2000-2500 yards per. Liberal use of the pull buoy doesn’t seem to make it worse. I have less experience on the bike, but it seems a couple 2x20 Sweet Spot rides a week wouldn’t be too taxing, and would keep the cycling fitness from free-falling. Those should leave you enough residual fitness that you can ramp back up pretty rapidly after your marathon.
On the bike, I’ve had really good success with 30s intervals in the middle of a 2 hour ride.
6-12 x 30s (30s)
I do these basically all-out… Which for me is about 1.7xFTP. I start with 6, and add 2 each week. I try to hold the same power for each…so, some pacing is needed in the first half.
The rest of the ride is all zone2. I literally so them mid-ride (50 minutes into a 2hr). I find this much less taxing than 2x20…and very effective at holding (and possibly increasing) bike ftp. My ftp went up by 10 watts doing this as my only bike session for 4 weeks.
Thanks. Yeah, I just can’t see how I’m going to reach my running goals with any more than minimal cycling volume e.g. recovery spins and maybe some short efforts. To be honest, I hadn’t really thought much about the swimming at all but there’s obviously an opportunity there to use it for both recovery and additional threshold work with no impact, as suggested above.
Here’s what I’ve found with the three disciplines:
-When I do pull sets my muscular endurance is generally well below my cardiovascular endurance. Accordingly, pull sets for me end up being Zone 2 to low Zone 3 work.
-When it comes to running my biggest enemy is some sort of a minor injury that sidelines me for a week (I’m not a fan of “running through†injuries). As long as I run first my legs are generally fresh enough to minimize the risk of injury from running with poor form as a result of being tired. If I bike after I run, the only potential downside is a sub-par workout where I can’t hit my targets.
-Most of my running is quite slow. If I were only running I’d hardly get any Z3/Z4 work in a week. 2x20 bike workouts are a nice supplement. Two of those per week plus a tempo run (which I keep closer to the “1†than the “2†in the BarryP plan) gives me 110 minutes of Z3/Z4 work per week out of about 840 minutes of training time. Not quite 90/10 but close.