Quick Question are, Karhu and Newtons built on the same forefoot running theroy?
Do they basically do the same thing?
Not looking for a discussion on forefoot running, just if the shoes do basically the same thing or if there is a significant difference in the 2?
Thanks for the help.
I don’t know a ton about Karhu, I’ve certainly heard of them before and met some people who swore by them, but to your actual question, nothing I have seen about them indicates to me that they similar at all to Newtons.
Newton is purported all about natural running, the goal of which is to emulate the feel of barefoot running, low to the ground, minimal cushion and minimal ramp angles (heel to toe drop). On the far end you have barefoot, then VFF’s (no heel to toe drop), then you have shoes like Newtons which can have as little as 1.5mm or 2mm HT offsets, some shoes like the Saucony Kinvara and A4 with 4mm, Zoot’s at 10mm, and on the opposite end of the spectrum, conventionally ramped running shoes like the Karhu at 14mm. Newton also uses what they call a proprioceptive feedback plate in concert with the built in support/cushion is supposed to make the show feel more like you are running barefoot without the full force of the impact. On this last point, I’ve ran a ton in Newtons, and I’ve never found this particularly noticeable.
Back to Karhu, like most manufacturers, they make a range of shoes. One that caught my eye is somewhat unconventional was their fulcrum series, the description of which included:
The shoe uses a carbon midfoot bridge to help smooth the transition from heel-strike to toe-off.
So returning to the basic premise that Newton’s and other “natural” shoes are all about promoting a mid to forefoot strike, the fact that Karhu is actively promoting a heel strike would seem to indicate that they are the polar opposite of Newtons.
I’ve tried both brands. I loved Newton and didn’t like Karhu. Karhu just felt clunky. Newton felt great when running. YMMV, but for me, the Newtons are the way to go if you are looking to make a switch. I tried the Karhu Fast 2 and the Newton Distancia. You should try them yourself, I know people who like both.
I switched to Newtons last fall to help overcome an Achilles injury and had great success with the Gravitas. I develop ITBS about 2 months ago and really haven’t run since.
Beginning to finally “feel” some pronation in my stride (both walking and running) I looked into a stability shoe to see if that could help address my ITB issues. Was planning on buying the Newton stability shoe, but ended up buying the Karhu Fluid Fulcrum. I really liked how they ran and could feel much more of a forefoot strike. The heel is actually rounded off to minimize a heel strike and roll you forward to a forefoot. They do not actively “encourage” a heel strike (at least that was how it was explained to me.)
All that said, so far there has been no help with my ITB since buying the Karhu’s…but I’m not holding that against the shoes.
As stated, I have never run in Karhu’s nor do I claim to be an expert on them, the quote above is from a retailer and may or may not accurately reflect Karhu’s stance.
That being said, there is still a big gulf between rolling momentum from heel to toe and actually striking on your mid or forefoot. When you heel strike, your mid and forefoot still strike as well, just after the heel has already made contact. The marketing, and even the very name Fulcrum (in physics, a fulcrum is the pivot point on a lever arm), seems to reinforce this theme of transferring energy from heel to toe-off, and I’m not arguing that this is even a bad idea, it may work wonders for many people. Nor does the idea behind a shoe really guarantee how people are going to run in them, I see people heel strike in Newtons and VFFs all of the time, and you can forefoot strike in non-“natural” shoes too just fine.
The argument is not whether one is better than the other, but instead that they are two different approaches, which I still believe is the case.
2 totally different philosophies behind the shoes.
Newton: change you, minimal drop
Karhu: work with what you have, more drop than normal
I switched to Newtons last fall to help overcome an Achilles injury
The heel is actually rounded off to minimize a heel strike and roll you forward to a forefoot. They do not actively “encourage” a heel strike (at least that was how it was explained to me.)
Odd to switch to a shoe that makes one extremely susceptible to achilles issues when you already have an achilles issue.
Karhu is designed to accelerate your foot through it’s “natural” gait cycle. Whether that gait cycle is heel striking/midfoot or whatever the shoe itself tries - through “fulcrum” technology - to get you through your strike to toe-off gait cycle ASAP.
For this reason, Karhu says that mild overpronators can run in a “neutral” Karhu shoe as they don’t spend as much time planted (and potentially pronating) in their shoes.
I switched to Newtons last fall to help overcome an Achilles injury
The heel is actually rounded off to minimize a heel strike and roll you forward to a forefoot. They do not actively “encourage” a heel strike (at least that was how it was explained to me.)
Odd to switch to a shoe that makes one extremely susceptible to achilles issues when you already have an achilles issue.
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Whether or not Newtons make one “extremely susceptible” to Achilles issues is a matter of debate, I suppose…
That said, I came into it unbiased by any thoughts /positions. After battleing my Achilles problems for 15+months with no improvements, I started looking into “natural” running as an option. Used on old pair of First-Gen Nike Free and began running very short and slow (.5mi @ 15’/mile) Would gradually add 1/10 of a mile. After 2+ months, I was up to 1.75 miles and bought new shoes. Tried a number of different “natural” running shoes, including the most recent Nike Free, etc. By FAR, the Newtons felt the best to me…not even close. Saw my orhto a few weeks later and he said he would rather see me in Nikes. Bought a new pair of Free’s and within 2 runs could feel my Achilles start to tighten. Went back to my Newtons and all was good.
Had finally worked my way up to 8 miles on my runs and then the ITB flared up.
I see smilarities between Newtons and Speedplay pedals. A lot of people claim that Speedplays CAUSED them knee problems. My theory has always been that when some try Speedplays, the sensation is so different to what they are used to (i.e. the “walking on ice” feeling) that they tense their legs to fight that feeling when riding. This tension in turn causes the knee problems.
I can see a similar situation with Newtons…the sensations you experience in them is definitely different than other shoes. If some are fighting that sensation rather than just going with it, I can see where that would lead to injuries while using Newton shoes.
Anyway…just a rambling theory for a Friday afternoon.
The concept of “natural” running means that you’re basically attempting to run as a midfoot striker. Whether that’s a worthwhile goal is what is a matter for debate.
Newton shoes place particular emphasis on that so-called “natural” footstrike and gait process, which naturally puts more muscular load on the achilles and calf muscles, which is why people that wear Newtons and don’t “break them in” properly are susceptible to achilles and calf issues.
Edit to add: sounds like you wore them correctly. 10 mins several times a week, 15 mins, 20 mins etc etc. Too many people go out and putz around in them on an 8 mile run for their cherry popping and then get their cherry popped violently.
I’m no evangelist for “natural” running nor Newtons. I can only say that both worked for me. I would be very hesitant to say it is a goal that everyone should strive for, but cerainly an option that is worth considering depending on the circumstances.
Newtons are a sweet shoe for forefoot strikers. They should be, at that price. I tried karhu because i dig the whole scandinavian thing. However, I wasn’t particularly impressed. I’d agree with the poster who described them as “klunky.” Now I have found nike lunaracers, which are lighter and cheaper than the newtons, but deliver the same (for me) forefoot feel. I am very happy. However, I rotate lunaracers with vitruvians… oh no, they are out of business!!! Guess this’ll be my last pair.
I bought Newtons convinced I was going to take them up on the 30 return guarantee and return them. though I transitioned to them slowly and had very few miles in at the end of the 30 days there was also no way I was sending them back. Now I run exclusively in them and hate all my other shoes. It is hard to explain, I was not a forefoot striker before them, they taught me to get up on my forefoot and they run better then any other shoes I have ever owned. Tried the Karhu at local specialty store (only a parking lot run) but they are not even close to the same. Finally, I can honestly say I can run more mileage without injury on the newtons then any other shoe, they look like and injury problem waiting to happen but if you make the transition slowly you will never go back to any other shoe. And I am never this passionate about anything I think is a gimmick. This one works
I was thinking of trying the Newton, then found the Karhu stability on clearance. Tried it and have loved it. I have always worn Mizuno with a powerstep insert. Find with the Karhu I need no insert and, comparing to my previous shoes they are not as heavy, or klunky, as others have described.
I do find the toe box to be a bit larger than I am used to. But they are certainly lighter.
I love running in them. Seems like this is one of those matters of preference.