Karbon Speed Wheel Review / Experience

I first heard of Karbon Speed when they did a facebook promotion for free toe warmers. I was intrigued so I did some research on their wheels and they seemed to be a decent alternative for training during the dry months but the price was a little high. Karbon Speed then surprised everyone with a Black Friday promotion on ANY set of their wheels for $999 including shipping and tax. THEN it made sense to take the plunge and I bought the wheelset.

I received them a few days later and DAMN they were beautiful in the box. They came very well packaged and the quality of the carbon hoops looked fantastic. I decided to install them on my 2012 Trek Speed Concept 9.9 and remove my Zipp 404’s to make room for the Karbon Speeds.

As many of you know, the braking system in the Speed Concept is very difficult to work on so I had a local shop swap the pads for me and I installed the cassette and tires. A few days later, I was ready to ride.

The Ride:
Right out of the gate, the wheels felt good! They held speed well on the flats and felt smooth in the wind. After a few miles of riding the flats and stopping at stop lights we started doing some rolling climbs in Los Altos Ca. It was pretty standard, climb up and them barrel down some non-technical descents on perfectly smooth roads with minimal wind. At the first descent, I noticed the brakes making a horrible squealing sound. This noise became increasingly worse as the ride continued and a few hours later, I brought the bike home and took a look at the mechanical aspect of the bike where everything looked OK to my eye so I took the bike out again. I rode about 5 miles on flat terrain and braked only at stoplights and every time I applied the brakes I would get the same barking / squealing sound. It became so loud that I no longer felt safe on the bike and took it into the shop.

On Facebook, I had “liked” the Karbon Speed page so I went through and looked at their user comments and saw nothing but praise so I decided to ask them about the issue that I was having. I explained the situation and posted it on their FB page. Then I went to their website and pasted the same message into their “contact us” form which emailed it to “Mark Mulch.” His response was “Did you change out the brake pads? We haven’t had a report of this problem before.” I replied that I had in fact changed the pads to the supplied cork pads and that I would be in touch after my mechanic looked at them.

Today (12/11) the mechanic got back to me and let me know that there were two issues. 1. One of the Brake Pads was not installed all the way and he adjusted the toe in. 2. The rear wheel was dished incorrectly and he had to re-dish the wheel.

I went back to the Karbon Speed Facebook page to reply to my original post as a follow up and found that my post was deleted and I was ‘removed’ from liking their page. I found that a little offensive since my post didn’t say anything was wrong with the wheels, but it raised a question for them. I then emailed Mark Mulch with the feedback from the bike shop and inquired to why I had been removed from the facebook page and my comment deleted.

His response:
"Glad you got to the bottom of it. Although I will point out that your wheel was in perfect true when it left here. We tested it on two different truing stands before boxing so I’m a little unclear of what your local bike shop could find to adjust.

We took the FB message off the page because we had already been communicating via email.

Let me know if you have any issues or questions about the wheels."

As a consumer who just spent a $1,000 on a no-name bike wheel and out of the kindness of my heart I decided to give this company a chance simply because they put a Bible verse on their box, I am pretty offended by the way they handled the situation. I’ve included my phone number in all of my correspondence with them and not once have they reached out to me via phone. They have never taken ownership or acted like they give a damn about what I am experiencing with the wheels but instead they let me know that they haven’t had anyone let them know of a similar experience. Even when I let them know that I found out what the problem was there wasn’t an apology or any sympathy, just a ‘glad you got to the bottom of it.’

Where am I going with this? This is a cross between a wheel review, a company review and a rant where I wonder where the sense of customer service has gone. I spend a ridiculous amount of money of biking stuff and somehow feel I should be entitled to some decent customer service but in reality, ALL consumers should have a good experience with start-up companies simply because they should want to build their business with a solid good reputation for a product that they stand behind and support. I may not be as fast as everyone in my AG but I’ve finished 3 full Ironman races and a billion other races and rides over the years. I’ve trained athletes, encouraged new-bies, been an advocate for triathlon and a positive mentor for folks that want to get their feet wet with triathlon. I’m fully committed to this sport! How can a brand-new company whos doors have been open for less than 3 months act like the customers who make their very existence possible don’t matter?

**Perhaps I should do what I was going to do originally, buy a pair of Zipp 808 Firecrest wheels for racing and train on my 404’s instead of trying to save them for racing. ** Perhaps Mark would have had a different response if he took a look in the garage to see over $40k in bicycles.

^^This^^

Mark Mulch was the guy that posed as a triathlon consumer on Slowtwitch claiming he purchased Karbon Speed wheels and LOVED them. He was quickly exposed as an employee of Karbon Speed.

Mark Mulch has also posted on the local triathlete group’s facebook page pumping his product (without being an official sponser too). Many of the members have grown tired of his schtick.

Good luck getting your money back.

Seriously???

I looked him up on LinkedIn…he’s not a bike guy, he seems to be a sales guy by trade. Maybe him and his buddies decided to start a wheel company. I’m OK with that and think it’s awesome that they are risk takers.

But seriously…give my 195 lbs ass assurance that my full carbon wheel isn’t going to implode at 25 mph on a decent because the braking surface gets hot. If the wheels work best for 160 lb riders, that is fine…tell me that.

And another note - there is a huge difference between truing the wheel and the wheel dish. He didn’t see, to understand that concept.

Where the hell is their engineer from Stanford? Playing golf with Tiger?

Hey Ryan - I first want to apologize for your negative experience. I’m sorry that you did not feel that we handled your needs quickly and effectively. It is always our goal to serve our customers beyond their expectations.

Mark, like myself, is human, and I ask that you forgive both of us for not serving you well.

I will assure you that your wheels will not implode at 25mph are wheels are not generic rims and are quality tested to ensure they perform when you need them.

Please feel free to call me at (214) 310-1240 for any reason


James Blair
Karbon Speed
james.blair@karbonspeed.com

There was a train wreck of a thread here and one more recently on BT. Both cases, Mark posing as a consumer. BT even got a guest appearance by their CEO.
The interesting stuff is the claims of 11min speed gains on an Oly and how their wheels improve your cadence.

Good luck !

That’s kind of a troubling story to read. Because we look at customer issues or complaints as valuable ways to make our products (or our service) better. Period.

It doesn’t matter if we get the feedback by phone, email, facebook, or postal mail, it is all highly valuable, and we don’t delete any of it. And, nearly always, athletes have some pretty good ideas and great feedback. Most of which we’ve acted upon and some of it has even inspired new products.

That sucks.

I figured if there was anything KS could get right, it was their customer service. I guess they need some work on that too.

One thing that has been consistant is that their wheels come in some cool boxes.

I first heard of Karbon Speed when they did a facebook promotion for free toe warmers. I was intrigued so I did some research on their wheels and they seemed to be a decent alternative for training during the dry months but the price was a little high. Karbon Speed then surprised everyone with a Black Friday promotion on ANY set of their wheels for $999 including shipping and tax. THEN it made sense to take the plunge and I bought the wheelset.

I received them a few days later and DAMN they were beautiful in the box. They came very well packaged and the quality of the carbon hoops looked fantastic. I decided to install them on my 2012 Trek Speed Concept 9.9 and remove my Zipp 404’s to make room for the Karbon Speeds.

As many of you know, the braking system in the Speed Concept is very difficult to work on so I had a local shop swap the pads for me and I installed the cassette and tires. A few days later, I was ready to ride.

The Ride:
Right out of the gate, the wheels felt good! They held speed well on the flats and felt smooth in the wind. After a few miles of riding the flats and stopping at stop lights we started doing some rolling climbs in Los Altos Ca. It was pretty standard, climb up and them barrel down some non-technical descents on perfectly smooth roads with minimal wind. At the first descent, I noticed the brakes making a horrible squealing sound. This noise became increasingly worse as the ride continued and a few hours later, I brought the bike home and took a look at the mechanical aspect of the bike where everything looked OK to my eye so I took the bike out again. I rode about 5 miles on flat terrain and braked only at stoplights and every time I applied the brakes I would get the same barking / squealing sound. It became so loud that I no longer felt safe on the bike and took it into the shop.

On Facebook, I had “liked” the Karbon Speed page so I went through and looked at their user comments and saw nothing but praise so I decided to ask them about the issue that I was having. I explained the situation and posted it on their FB page. Then I went to their website and pasted the same message into their “contact us” form which emailed it to “Mark Mulch.” His response was “Did you change out the brake pads? We haven’t had a report of this problem before.” I replied that I had in fact changed the pads to the supplied cork pads and that I would be in touch after my mechanic looked at them.

Today (12/11) the mechanic got back to me and let me know that there were two issues. 1. One of the Brake Pads was not installed all the way and he adjusted the toe in. 2. The rear wheel was dished incorrectly and he had to re-dish the wheel.

I went back to the Karbon Speed Facebook page to reply to my original post as a follow up and found that my post was deleted and I was ‘removed’ from liking their page. I found that a little offensive since my post didn’t say anything was wrong with the wheels, but it raised a question for them. I then emailed Mark Mulch with the feedback from the bike shop and inquired to why I had been removed from the facebook page and my comment deleted.

His response:
"Glad you got to the bottom of it. Although I will point out that your wheel was in perfect true when it left here. We tested it on two different truing stands before boxing so I’m a little unclear of what your local bike shop could find to adjust.

We took the FB message off the page because we had already been communicating via email.

Let me know if you have any issues or questions about the wheels."

As a consumer who just spent a $1,000 on a no-name bike wheel and out of the kindness of my heart I decided to give this company a chance simply because they put a Bible verse on their box, I am pretty offended by the way they handled the situation. I’ve included my phone number in all of my correspondence with them and not once have they reached out to me via phone. They have never taken ownership or acted like they give a damn about what I am experiencing with the wheels but instead they let me know that they haven’t had anyone let them know of a similar experience. Even when I let them know that I found out what the problem was there wasn’t an apology or any sympathy, just a ‘glad you got to the bottom of it.’

Where am I going with this? This is a cross between a wheel review, a company review and a rant where I wonder where the sense of customer service has gone. I spend a ridiculous amount of money of biking stuff and somehow feel I should be entitled to some decent customer service but in reality, ALL consumers should have a good experience with start-up companies simply because they should want to build their business with a solid good reputation for a product that they stand behind and support. I may not be as fast as everyone in my AG but I’ve finished 3 full Ironman races and a billion other races and rides over the years. I’ve trained athletes, encouraged new-bies, been an advocate for triathlon and a positive mentor for folks that want to get their feet wet with triathlon. I’m fully committed to this sport! How can a brand-new company whos doors have been open for less than 3 months act like the customers who make their very existence possible don’t matter?

Perhaps I should do what I was going to do originally, buy a pair of Zipp 808 Firecrest wheels for racing and train on my 404’s instead of trying to save them for racing. Perhaps Mark would have had a different response if he took a look in the garage to see over $40k in bicycles.

As a disclaimer - I want to acknowledge that we have run into many problems with Bike shops doing work on our wheels. In this case, the brake pads were not installed correctly (which was the genesis of the entire problem) In another instance, a recent customer called us and said there was a notch in the hub, preventing the cassette from being installed. We paid to have the wheel shipped back to us so we could replace it. Upon receiving the wheel, it was clear that the bike shop misled our customer and the wheels were in perfect condition. We installed his cassette for him, and returned them (all on our dime). There are other countless stories of bike shops telling our customers that our wheels are crap simply by looking at them, which is clearly impossible.

The point is, most bike shops don’t like any of the direct to consumer wheels - and apparently they are trying to mislead people. You are taking business away from them by buying wheels from us, it’s no wonder that they’re mad about it.

Ryan, I’m glad (as it seems to be forgotten) that you enjoyed riding your wheels and that, once the brake pads were installed correctly - performed wonderfully for you. Again, I’m sorry that we were not able to serve you faster and more accurately, and I hope that you will allow us to serve you in the future if you have any more questions or concerns.


James Blair
Karbon Speed

Perhaps Mark would have had a different response if he took a look in the garage to see over $40k in bicycles.

I felt your pain until this last sentence, then I realized you are a douche. If you expect special treatment because you spend a lot of money on bikes I’ll rub the top of your head when you’re

Never mind, That last bit was perhaps too vulgar, but feel free to use your imagination.

Really T-wrecks? I’m a douche because I have a nice bike?

Do you have a nice bike? If so, are you a douche?

I totally understand what you’re saying though…but I didn’t mean to come across as douchy. Cycling is a very expensive sport where wheels for a bike cost more than wheels for most cars. That said, it would be great if there was customer service behind those purchases.

Perhaps you’re a douche for reading into things incorrectly…just an observation.

James - had KS offered to take my wheels back to investigate them, I would have done so.

The mechanic at this shop has worked with me on a few of my bikes and I trust him. That said, he may have made a mistake and perhaps it was just the brake pad not being pushed all the way in that caused the noise. It would have been awesome for KS to let me know that could be the problem when I asked on facebook.

Instead delete the feedback on facebook and remove it from my “likes”?

care to comment on that one?

There was a train wreck of a thread here and one more recently on BT. Both cases, Mark posing as a consumer. BT even got a guest appearance by their CEO.
The interesting stuff is the claims of 11min speed gains on an Oly and how their wheels improve your cadence.

Good luck !

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=467686&start=1

here is that thread

WOW!!! Way to throw the LBS under the bus through assumptions.

I mean seriously…many of my local LBS don’t even keep race wheels in stock because they are high priced inventory that don’t turnover consistantly. Their profit margin on wheels is NOTHING compared to their profit margin on bike repairs, service, and smaller ticket accessories like gloves, lights, bottles, chain lube, etc that are kept well stocked. Do you really think that bike shops are purposely doing bad work on your wheels out of spite? While risking permanent damage to the future relationship of the customer?

I guess maybe it’s possible…but that would be my que to find a new LBS anyway.

But I suppose I’m not at all surprised by your response given your company’s short track record.

You said you should have had better customer experience because of said bike(s). I am not a douche because I do not come here and tell people what I own or how fast I race, although my behavior could probably be improved. But the information I care to share can be shared effectively without bringing either of those things into the picture. So, too, could have yours.

Only reason that the post was deleted was that you had communicated that message to us by email, live chat, our away form and then lastly on Facebook. Mark did initially respond to your email on Sunday, before you posted it? I’m not sure the timing of all of the communications.

Since we were corresponding by email, it didn’t make much sense to have to doubly communicate with you on Facebook as well.

Again, I’m very sorry that you felt offended by this - we are clearly dealing with it in a very public way this time, and I hope that you know that we are always in the business of dealing in truth. We have nothing to hide - and though we have not been perfect, we will not shy away from responding.


James Blair
Karbon Speed

Only reason that the post was deleted was that you had communicated that message to us by email, live chat, our away form and then lastly on Facebook. Mark did initially respond to your email on Sunday, before you posted it? I’m not sure the timing of all of the communications.

Since we were corresponding by email, it didn’t make much sense to have to doubly communicate with you on Facebook as well.

Again, I’m very sorry that you felt offended by this - we are clearly dealing with it in a very public way this time, and I hope that you know that we are always in the business of dealing in truth. We have nothing to hide - and though we have not been perfect, we will not shy away from responding.


James Blair
Karbon Speed

I asked this on the other thread on BT, is this really serious? Who in your marketing team came up with this gem

http://karbonspeed.com/assets/comparison_chart.jpg

WOW!!! Way to throw the LBS under the bus through assumptions.

I mean seriously…many of my local LBS don’t even keep race wheels in stock because they are high priced inventory that don’t turnover consistantly. Their profit margin on wheels is NOTHING compared to their profit margin on bike repairs, service, and smaller ticket accessories like gloves, lights, bottles, chain lube, etc that are kept well stocked. Do you really think that bike shops are purposely doing bad work on your wheels out of spite? While risking permanent damage to the future relationship of the customer?

I guess maybe it’s possible…but that would be my que to find a new LBS anyway.

But I suppose I’m not at all surprised by your response given your company’s short track record.

We actually have great relationships with many bike shops, and frankly we were very surprised when this type of thing began to happen. I’m not making an assumption about it, however. We had several people have complaints as directed by their bike shop tech, we paid to have them returned and ship out new replacements, and upon inspection, found nothing wrong with the wheel, or could not duplicate their complaint.
Again, I agree… unexpected and a good reason to find a new shop.


James Blair
Karbon Speed

I will assure you that your wheels will not implode at 25mph are wheels are not generic rims and are quality tested to ensure they perform when you need them.


James Blair
Karbon Speed
james.blair@karbonspeed.com

James, since you and the person over on BT seem to be saying that your rims are your own design, can I pick your brain about the design process?

What CFD did you use to develop your rim shapes, what shape did you start with and how did the drag of your final rim compare to toroidal wheel shapes?

What tire size and brand did you design your wheel around?

Why have lots of wheel making company has come up with a blunt nosed, wide shaped rim as fastest and yet through your designing, you’ve come up with a “modified V”?

THANKS!

These wheels ARE a generic and dated design…that is a fact. Until “Karbon Speed” comes on here and shares R&D data like FLO, HED or Zipp there is no reason to believe otherwise. They look IDENTICAL to wheels you can buy on eBay for $500 a pair.

Also, it’s OUR not ARE…

I’m confused by your correction of my grammar, it’s our not are? Please explain.

I know that he likely can’t answer my questions. I’ve done the same thing to the boys at Mad Fiber and some guy pedaling generic frames.

I find it’s better to lay out the questions necessary for a company to show that their designs have validity. If he can’t answer the above, his product is a crock to me. If he does answer them, we can at least see if it passes the sniff test.