it’s “a leap of faith.”
.
I do believe if anyone does some quick searching back around when the documentary came out, that you will find that many of the adults in the film were very positive about how they were portrayed and that the makers tried pretty hard to make sure people in the movie were comfortable with the content.
Why should this shock anyone? The adults in the movie ARE like they way they are portrayed. Can anyone think they’d allow some hoytey toytie fancy schmancy film school indie rocker heathen atheist out to destroy them to film them if they didn’t feel comfortable with it? No one forced them to be filmed, everyone involved had to sign a waiver to allow it. This is who these people are, and they aren’t ashamed. For better or worse, your mileage may very.
It reminds me of being in a car a few weeks back with friends who are married and have a 2+ year old. The only thing they listen to in the car is Christian little kids music. After 2 or 3 songs it just struck me as a bit over the top. Paraphrasing “Isn’t God great? He gives us so much everyday, so let’s thank him with this song…” or “God is so great, with all the gifts He gives us, including ever lasting life. Let’s thing of 5 ways to thank Him today…” Not really up my alley, but if it’s what they want for their kid, they have found it!
PS: It should go without saying I have my own biases and views on this. But my background isn’t what most would think, so I am able to view this issue from many different angles.
okay then, Texas is out… where else in the US? I live in a very small town in Northern Illinois and the weather is killing me. I have been thinking about moving for a while now but I guess I must be careful choosing the right place. Any advice about where to go or not to go?
thanks,
DPC
This group of people reminded me of OPUS DEI from Spain…yeah, the ones from the Davinci Code! any thoughts here?
DPC
If you’re looking for the liberal all accepting life head out here to NorCal. Be prepared for sticker shock when compared to cost of living in the Mid West.
I’ve never watched the film, nor have even heard of it (maybe it wasn’t promoted to Canada?). I am a Christian, but I am not ignorant enough to think that Christians are held in the best regard in the western world in the 21st century.
Some of you threw out some observations and numbers of church attendance. You actually aren’t that far off. There is an organization called “The Barna Group”. They are a research company that does national surveys on spirituality, Christianity, church growth and attentance. They write that 60% of the U.S. will identify themselves as Christians, about 25% attend church, but about 5% are Christian in their everyday walk, their relationship with God, and their Christian worldview.
One of the researchers of the Barna Group just wrote a book called “unChristian: what the next generation thinks of Christianity and why it matters”. It is a research based book about surveys and interviews with “outsiders” aged 16-29 and what they think of Christians (the author really struggled with a referable term such as “outsiders” because he didn’t want to call them “nonChristians” or “pagans”). The general consensus was that people aged 16-29 in America (probably the same as Canadians) thought that Christians today don’t portray Christianity the way Jesus Christ intended it to be, and he broke the book down into 6 chapters addressing the 6 perceptions that outsiders have of Christians: Hypocritical, too concerned about converts (making people feel like targets rather than people), antihomosexual, sheltered, too political, and judgemental. Most Christians would say that these are “misconceptions”, but perception is reality.
I’ve been convicted of every one of these, and I’m sure every Christian has. But I understand why people can see that Christianity and the church at large has gotten away from its “roots”. When Jesus was on earth doing his thing, there were no church buildings, no denominations, no seminaries, no sunday school or youth groups. In fact, the only people Jesus ever got mad at were the religious elite. Christianity was a movement, kinda like the Christian movement in China right now. Christians reached out and helped the socially discarded: the poor, the sick, the diseased, the abused. It was a fringe movement. Jesus went to a synagogue twice! He spent his time actually bridging the gap to prositutes, leapors, the homosexuals, and the poor. Maybe I’m preaching to the wrong choir here, but I hope to be involved with a church community that tries be much less institutional.
i thought it was a great movie. i would highly recommend it. as i say: welcome to america.
So this movie gives a good repreentation of America?
Nice post fellow Canadian!
Fred.
absolutely yes.
travel a bit through the bible belt, the south, the midwest, and the plains states (and don’t forget to include the real cream of the crop, our bright leaders in DC in the white house and congress), and you will see that folks like this are remarkably common.
like tibbs, i too have worked with many of these amazing folks, and many seem to have hidden lives: praise jesus, vehemently despise gays and all that, but have adulterous homosexual sex with male prostitutes in secret. not sure if american christians have a monopoly on it, but they sure are pretty good at living these double lives …
just curious, is there any group of people you actually like?
Christians reached out and helped the socially discarded: the poor, the sick, the diseased, the abused. It was a fringe movement. Jesus went to a synagogue twice! He spent his time actually bridging the gap to prostitutes, lepers, the homosexuals, and the poor.
wow.
well, unless i have been totally asleep, in my time on these ST forums, you are absolutely the first Christian that i have ever heard here (and in my real life as well) emphasize this accepting and transcendant aspect of jesus’ teachings.
so i truly salute you. seriously.
i guess there are still a few decent, accepting, and loving christians left on earth. but not so many on this forum, though …
you bet.
for one, i respect those that actually do what they say or preach.
but not many of those folks left.
I see the US as ever more secular, and anti-religious, and would put numbers closer to what Aukman poated above;
"They write that 60% of the U.S. will identify themselves as Christians, about 25% attend church, but about 5% are Christian in their everyday walk, their relationship with God, and their Christian worldview. "
So what surprises me is that such a small percentage of those around you, can define “America” for you.
When Jesus was on earth doing his thing, there were no church buildings, no denominations, no seminaries, no sunday school or youth groups.
Really? You then say:
In fact, the only people Jesus ever got mad at were the religious elite. Christianity was a movement, kinda like the Christian movement in China right now. Christians reached out and helped the socially discarded: the poor, the sick, the diseased, the abused. It was a fringe movement.
There were churches, they were called synagogues (as you later reference). There were denominations, but of various types of Judaism. There were Jewish schools and youth groups. Because Jesus was Jewish (is Jewish? A perspective I guess). Can’t look at Jesus with a 21st century perspective only. He was a Jew lashing out at other Jews.
And one can readily make the argument (accurately IMO) that the reaching out aspect was in an effort to amass converts to the movement (hence the whole circumcision debate, some point to).
But points very well taken (which isn’t to say I’m right, I’m probably not).
That’s an interest book you reference, might be worth researching. Though I do disagree with the 60% Christian statistic. Pew put it at 82% in 2002, the CIA puts it at 76% or more(Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%). But maybe this is a different view of it.
I’d like to see a similar study with the intra-Christian perspective. What do Christians think about Christians.
You are correct, Jesus was a Jew who lashed at those Jews. And yes they had synagogues and religious groups, but I believe the big beef that Jesus had with them is that they were focused on the Rules. they had something like 650 rules that they spent their whole lives trying to keep. That is why the story of Jesus saying that there are only two laws ( 1) Love God with all you got, and 2) love your neighbor as yourself) was so countercultural back then.
A similar study of intra-church perspectives would be really interesting.
okay then, Texas is out… where else in the US? I live in a very small town in Northern Illinois and the weather is killing me. I have been thinking about moving for a while now but I guess I must be careful choosing the right place. Any advice about where to go or not to go?
thanks,
DPC
Dude, TX is definitely out, at least the Dallas-Ft. Worth area (where I fled from to our frozen little part of IL). Maybe San Antonio is better? Try to talk your wife into visiting- we’ll tie it into a race if school isn’t killing me. My wife has not been happy w/ the weather lately… 5 houses in 6 years of marriage… I hate moving!
How would you like to start a coffee farm in Panama?
“If people are as you describe, it just gives me another reason not to come to Texas.”
Never had this problem in Dallas or Ft Worth. It’s just a small town thing.
Aukman,
Well put. I think you sum up some very good points.
"I see the US as ever more secular, and anti-religious, and would put numbers closer to what Aukman poated above; "
I want some proof. Sure Christians are finally being honest and acting like their true selves instead of faking that they are church goers but they still believe and I am unaware of any movement trying to shut down churches that is well funded and making progress.
As a Christian, I would definately agree with you about Jesus and his pointing out they hypocracy of how the religious elite in his times lived their lives and I don’t believe that it would be a big stretch to believe that he would be equaly critical of much of what is being done in the name of Christianity these days. Many of the Old Testament Jewish rules have just been traded for a series of new Christian rules that are used to distinguish “us” from “them” and this is often done in a confrontational manner. What is interesting with Jesus, is that when he was confrontational, it was not with the “sinners, prositutes and tax collectors” it was with the religious leaders who criticized him for eating with the first group.
Don’t kid yourself for a second, the message of Love God with all you got, and love your neighbor as yourself is still as countercultural today as it was 2000 years ago today.