In Daniels Table 9.1 he lists the mph run vs incline/grade to show mile efforts. i.e. a 7mph with a 5.5% grade would represent a 6:44 pace. If one were to do these to simulate mile repeats or quarter mile repeats would you consider these as “strength/hill repeats” or speed repeats if you were to do 1:1 between rest and increased grade. Make sense? any thoughts?
I’d consider them hill repeats. Not strength/hill repeats.
But if your goal is to run faster, why not instead of increasing the incline just increase the speed of the treadmill until you get the desired training effect?
Because 12 mph on a treadmill is downright petrifying! Kinda like 50 mph on a bike for me.
I use those Daniels tables on the treadmill and it definitely gets the HR way up there but what you miss out on is leg speed.
Can you post the tables? sound neat!
clyde
Because 12 mph on a treadmill is downright petrifying! Kinda like 50 mph on a bike for me.
I use those Daniels tables on the treadmill and it definitely gets the HR way up there but what you miss out on is leg speed.
Considering if you have a decent treadmill 12 mph will be more like 15 because of the cusioning effect itd be a little crazy.
I find the treadmill to be way to easy, even at fast fast paces… maybe I am gaming the system somehow. I feel the leg speed, but my HR is way down. Adding some grade SEEMS like a good way to add intensity and kind of calibrate the machine to real world pace and effort.
I wouldn’t bump it up to 5.5% though. That’s a whole 'nother workout altogether.
I couldnt post if I the table if I wanted to. But as one poster alluded, running at 12 mph is quite daunting. HR is pretty comparable to what I would be running at my desired “fast” speed, somewhere 5+ above running threshold. I also feel beat up when running flat, might be overstriding and the hills prevent that from happening. Thanks for the responses.
I find the treadmill to be way to easy, even at fast fast paces… maybe I am gaming the system somehow. I feel the leg speed, but my HR is way down. Adding some grade SEEMS like a good way to add intensity and kind of calibrate the machine to real world pace and effort.
I wouldn’t bump it up to 5.5% though. That’s a whole 'nother workout altogether.
The rule of thumb for treadmills that I have always heard and used is that adding a 1% grade will simulate flat road running. On the treadmills at my Y, I think that it is more like a 0.5% grade. It will depend a bit on how soft the surface is and stuff like that. Some treadmills have a bit of a slope built in, probably to try and create the road simulation by default, so it is all a case-by-case guesstimate.
You can figure it out — some equations to play around with — if you figure out the requisite oxygen consumption for a certain pace (say 6:44) then you can set that equal to some of the other equations and solve for percent grade.
Vo2 Formulae - Calculating Vo2
These allow you to calculate the Vo2 you’re working at for a particular pace.
You’ll need to convert min:sec/mi to meters/min, which is simply conversion of units:
min:sec/mi → min/mi → mph → m/min
(Multiplying mph by 26.8 will give you m/min)
Use the Walking Horizontal Vo2 formula for speeds less than or equal to 3.7mph. Use the Running Horizontal Vo2 formula for speeds greater than 5mph. Speeds between aren’t covered because it’s awkward to go at that pace, you’re not really running or walking, so pick either formula but neither will be accuraate (sorry 'bout that).
Both of the Horizontal formulae are useful for just that: flat ground, like a track, or a 0% inclined treadmill. There is also a Vertical Vo2 formula, if you know the incline.
Walking horizontal
Vo2 (mL/kg/min) = m/min * ((0.1 mL/kg/min)/m/min)) + 3.5 mL/kg/min
Walking vertical
Vo2 (mL/kg/min) = m/min * ((1.8 mL/kg/min)/m/min)) * %grade
Running horizontal
Vo2 (ml/kg/min) = m/min * ((0.2 ml/kg/min)/m/min)) + 3.5 ml/kg/min
Running vertical
Vo2 (mL/kg/min) = m/min * ((1.8 mL/kg/min)/m/min)) * %grade *.5
Notes on the formulae:
The 3.5 ml/kg/min is your (or my, or anyone else’s) Vo2 at rest. It must be added in, because you’re using that oxygen to keep you alive, PLUS the oxygen for your activity.
% grade on the vertical formulae needs to be a decimal. If you are at a 5% incline, don’t multiply by 5. You will get a screwy answer multiply by 0.05, and it will be correct.
***THIS IS IMPORTANT! if you are running at an incline and you want to know your Vo2, you need to calculate BOTH horizontal AND vertical Vo2. If you add the, you’ll get the Vo2 you’re working at.
There are different formulae for walking and running because running requires more oxygen. Why? Look at the mechanics of each - running has a flight phase. Walking does not. That airborne part makes the difference.
I’d consider them hill repeats. Not strength/hill repeats.
But if your goal is to run faster, why not instead of increasing the incline just increase the speed of the treadmill until you get the desired training effect?
Hills are speedwork in disguise, no? So sayeth some running friends of mine
I’m judging from some of the responses on this thread that if you feel like you are flying off the treadmill, over striding etc then either you shouldn’t be running at 12mph on the treadmill or you’ve mistakenly over estimated your fitness levels.
I used to run a large % of my mileage on the treadmill. So for example since my original point seems to have not been made well, normal everyday run pace was 8.7mph or 6:52pace on the tm. Normal outside pace is 7:10pace. half mary pace inside was 9.7mph or 6:18 or :12 outside about 6:20. threshold pace was 10.2-.3mph or 5:45 pac outside was roughly the same. Vo2 pace was 10.8 mph or ~5:15 outside was basically the same. Rep pace was ~ 11.7 mph. or about 35s per 200m outside.
Now if the majority of people are running 12mph on a treadmill I’d say most likely you are grossly over-estimating your ability or you treadmill is calibrated wrong. If your overstriding, then odds are you probably overstride normally. There is a small learning curve associated with treadmills, small being the key word.
If your threshold pace outside is 6min/mile then you will probably end up somewhere around 10.0-10.2mph on the majority of treadmills for your intervals which would be 5:52-6:00 pace.
The goal is to elicit the same responses to exercise on the treadmill that those workouts would elicit where you normally do them outside.
Its psychological, just like descending at 50 mph on a road or bike. Tempo pace (say 9-10 mph with a 1% grade) isn’t too daunting but 400s @ 75-80 sec. (11-12 mph) are just a little freaky. Been trying to overcome this for years. Glad to hear I’m not the only person who has this problem.
That kinda math hurts my brain, I went to public sckrewls.
Hills are speedwork in disguise as said by Lydiard I believe.
I like math
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