Looking for any feedback from folks that have used his 1/2 marathon plans. My offseason goal is to take 2-3 minutes off my 13.1 time (1:26 to 1:24ish), and to do that I was looking for a bit more structure, especially for building top end speed. For $55 I received a 12 week plan that was somewhat catered to my time goal and running history. I am in week 2 of the program and it is tough as hell. I have effectively failed the first interval workout, and I would guess I will “fail” the second, but I am thinking a little failure is a good thing when trying to build top end speed.
Out of curiosity does he still put on conferences etc?
I have generally followed a Daniels formula on many occasions and have been happy. One thing to recognize is that you may have the endurance that correlates to your VDOT but not the leg speed. At a similar VDOT for me, tempo runs at the prescribed pace are no problem, but the related 800m repeat pace seems impossible. Back it down a bit if needed–you will likely get the same benefit/stimulus at a slightly slower, but still challenging pace.
Looking for any feedback from folks that have used his 1/2 marathon plans. My offseason goal is to take 2-3 minutes off my 13.1 time (1:26 to 1:24ish), and to do that I was looking for a bit more structure, especially for building top end speed. For $55 I received a 12 week plan that was somewhat catered to my time goal and running history. I am in week 2 of the program and it is tough as hell. I have effectively failed the first interval workout, and I would guess I will “fail” the second, but I am thinking a little failure is a good thing when trying to build top end speed.
When the plan was created (or adapted) did you report currently possible or best race times?
In my experience Jack is pretty good across pace ranges. People may be able to sustain the incorrect VDot paces for lower intensities by essentially running a zone above where they should, but that at fast paces those errant Vdots become impossibly apparent.
Generally I think failing isn’t a bad thing. I bet in a couple weeks(x2) you will be able to complete those intervals.
I’ve used his plans (from the book - so generic and not customized to me) as part of both an Oly tri race training plan and an HM training plan.
I think the key is customizing it to what you can do and what works for you. I had to modify it considerably for the Oly (the 5-15K plan really doesn’t make sense unless you’re doing 30 mpw minimum), so I only did one quality workout a week and kept the long run. For the HM, I did 2x quality/week.
I found the longer tempo runs to be the toughest - the R stuff was the “easiest” for me.
Out of curiosity does he still put on conferences etc?
Yes he does. I went to one this summer.
I have generally followed a Daniels formula on many occasions and have been happy. One thing to recognize is that you may have the endurance that correlates to your VDOT but not the leg speed. At a similar VDOT for me, tempo runs at the prescribed pace are no problem, but the related 800m repeat pace seems impossible. Back it down a bit if needed–you will likely get the same benefit/stimulus at a slightly slower, but still challenging pace.
This is me to the T. Essentially why I am doing this program, never up never in.
I was SO hoping this thread was about something else… ;-))
I find that I can hit my Interval/Repeat paces better on a track. Similar with my Tempo workouts since my geography isn’t exactly flat… all my local runs have “hill work”. I do my Easy/Long and Marathon pace runs off of the track.
If you can’t complete the interval sessions, you have your vdot set too high. What was the nature of the fail?
It is unlikely that “top end speed” is the dominant factor in what is limiting your 1/2 marathon results.
I was SO hoping this thread was about something else… ;-))
Wonder if he also teaches them how to make flat Coke?
I was SO hoping this thread was about something else… ;-))
I swear every time I pick up the book, I start giggling.
I have used his plans for years. I disagree that R pace work is not important to improving HM times. This is hard work and I have found it improves efficiency and makes slower race pace much easier. I would say don’t drop the R pace work but rather back your VDOT off by a point or two.
I’ve used his plans (from the book - so generic and not customized to me) as part of both an Oly tri race training plan and an HM training plan.
I think the key is customizing it to what you can do and what works for you. I had to modify it considerably for the Oly (the 5-15K plan really doesn’t make sense unless you’re doing 30 mpw minimum), so I only did one quality workout a week and kept the long run. For the HM, I did 2x quality/week.
I found the longer tempo runs to be the toughest - the R stuff was the “easiest” for me.
I’ve used the Marathon A from the back of the book for HIM’s several times and it works well for me.
I’m going into week 7 the 5-15K next week and will do the 18 weeks of that during my off-season to work on my run speed. I’ll probably be 45-55 miles per week for the first 12 weeks then just under 40 for the rest only because I’ll need to be doing more on the bike.
To the OP, are you doing the prescribed paces for your current ability?
I was SO hoping this thread was about something else… ;-))
Forget Beer Mile…
If you can’t complete the interval sessions, you have your vdot set too high. What was the nature of the fail?
It is unlikely that “top end speed” is the dominant factor in what is limiting your 1/2 marathon results.
Paces across various distances for a single VDOT represent what you could hit for that distance if properly trained for that distance. If the OP is basing his VDOT off of a recent 10k, half marathon or marathon time that doesn’t mean he should necessarily be able to run the corresponding 800m or 1 mile time today. I know I couldn’t. Bekele probably couldn’t either.
It does mean that if properly trained for an 800m or 1 mile race, he should be able to run the corresponding time for that distance. Same logic applies to the prescribed workout paces. That is where leg speed comes into play–it may or may not be limiting the OP’s half marathon results–but if a longer race is the basis for his VDOT, then inability to hit the prescribed interval pace doesn’t automatically mean his VDOT is too high. Especially early on in the training cycle. Daniels and McMillan both discuss adjusting interval paces based on whether you are a speed or endurance athlete.
I think we are saying the same thing…that you need to find a pace at which you can complete the workout as opposed to the pace your vdot predicts you will be able to hold when the two don’t agree?
If you can’t complete the interval sessions, you have your vdot set too high. What was the nature of the fail?
It is unlikely that “top end speed” is the dominant factor in what is limiting your 1/2 marathon results.
A “fail” example would be the first interval session:
2 miles easy warm up, then 10x2minutes at 6:05, with 1 min rest.
My first 3-4 intervals were closer to 6:15, the middle 3-4 were right at 5:55-6:05, and then the last 3 were back to 6:15 range
I think we are saying the same thing…that you need to find a pace at which you can complete the workout as opposed to the pace your vdot predicts you will be able to hold when the two don’t agree?
Agreed.