After a conversation with a friend and now reading this thread: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/ITU_athlete_training_volume_vs_elite_ironman_volume_P2698704/
I am wondering why STers don’t seem to care about ITU very much. Crowie, Macca, the Raelerts, Potts, and many more IM guys come from an ITU or short course background.
Are the races over too quickly to be enjoyable? Can you not connect to the athletes because they are allowed to draft and nobody here would ever draft? Have you ever stuck around after CapTex, Hy-Vee, Treasure Island, or any other races to watch the ITU race?
Is everyone here a Potts and Reed fan because they also compete in long distance races?
What would it take to make more Americans come out (the streets are packed in Europe) and watch an ITU race?
ITU is largely not accessible by AG athletes,
IM is accessible by anyone, ANYONE (I mean, is it even a race after the top 10, and even then)
IM is also, largely, about finishing, everyone is a winner, while ITU is ONLY about racing,
and finally, The ST clause
ITU requires a strong swim and run, and here at ST, it’s not matter you win or lose, it’s a matter of who has the fastest split between t1 and t2. ITU doesn’t really swing that way.
I prefer ITU,
The saying goes: When you can’t go fast (ITU), go long (IM)
I guess also, US is not very strong in ITU, and the future doesn’t look compelling either
IM, US sucks too, but this brings us back to it’s about finishing for most.
I Love ITU racing!!! at least watching it. I did an ITU style race a few years back and not being from a swimming background, it was just like doing a normal non-drafting tri for me. I think I got out of the water in 25 minutes but the head guys already had 5 + minutes on me…so it was just a normal race for me.
After a conversation with a friend and now reading this thread: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...man_volume_P2698704/
I am wondering why STers don’t seem to care about ITU very much. Crowie, Macca, the Raelerts, Potts, and many more IM guys come from an ITU or short course background.
Are the races over too quickly to be enjoyable? Can you not connect to the athletes because they are allowed to draft and nobody here would ever draft? Have you ever stuck around after CapTex, Hy-Vee, Treasure Island, or any other races to watch the ITU race?
Is everyone here a Potts and Reed fan because they also compete in long distance races?
What would it take to make more Americans come out (the streets are packed in Europe) and watch an ITU race?
Rory
“drafting IT sUcks”
ITU has turned triathlon from a test of athletic prowess, into a swim warmup, a bike warmup and a running race. 90 minutes of boredom and 15 minutes wondering which runner of 2-3 will win today.
It has change triathlon from a man vs nature and man vs himself, into a man vs man event. Fundamentally different and just not interesting to me in the slightest. For man vs man, I’ll watch TdF thanks.
I think the ITU races are great and highly entertaining. I stuck around after AG nationals to watch the elite race with my gf and mom, and they both enjoyed watching it. I think the key thing is to have a multiple loop race, so it becomes a little more spectator friendly. It’s going to be difficult to draw a crowd to the races, unless there is something else going on at the same time. Maybe some sort of festival or concert being held during the race. For example, have something like a local food market or organic food vendors selling products close to the race area. Then you have a chance of brining out more people, who already support a healthy lifestyle, to the races.
Why does the man vs. man appeal of the Tour work for you, but not the man vs. man of ITU racing?
There are team tactics/Primes/Sprint finises in ITU racing just like a bike race. I’m actually just interested in why you feel that way, not trying to prove you wrong or anything.
I prefer watching ITU races, but enjoy the non-drafting races as well.
At the pro level, I have next to zero interest in either. Ironman appeals to me because I can do it, and much like a marathon, the idea of being able to go for an individual time over a set distance has meaning (yes, I realize there’s huge variance with different courses, and cue the “is ‘IM’ a distance or a brand?” debate, but neverthless…) whereas in ITU the distance and time are essentially irrelevant since it’s strictly a head-to-head format.
man vs man was referring to the fact that in IM the race is still against other people, but you can only win, or at least beat a competitor by being better than them (overall) In the ITU, with drafting, you introduce strategy whereby you draftoff your opponent, then just pass him in the finishing chute. You win, not by being better on the course on the day, but by being weaker, but taking advantage of your opponents strength, letting him lead you to the line, like a sprinter in a bike race. In ITU, you are racing your opponent to a much greater degree than you are racing against he course or racing against your own ability or limitations.
IT reminds me of pro bump slalom skiing. It’s not the fastest skiers that make it to the finals, but who won the individual head to head heats. Amateur ski racing (although they all make tons of money) has the fastest skier being first and the second fastest skier coming second. In Pro Bump skiing, the first place skier isn’t necessarily the fastest on the day, just the one who one each of the heats along the way.
then just pass him in the finishing chute. You win
This does not make sense, you both can draft on the run
Unless you are using ST clause, where the winner is 1st to T2
In ITU, you are racing your opponent to a much greater degree than you are racing against he course or racing against your own ability or limitations
So, it sounds like ITU is a better race,
while IM, like I said, is about who finishes (“we’re all winners, high five”)
I’ve been in tri for almost 20 years now. I even entered (but never raced, thanks to some family emergency) in a mountain ironman (I don’t think the name had been copywrited back then) way back in 1980. Back then, it was an individual test, on the same course at the same time. I liked that no-one got an unfair advantage by drafting off an opponent. The ITU started that way, but the introduction of drafting has tilted the playing field and also changed the very basic nature of the racing (man vs nature and man vs himself, to man vs man).
The ITU in their infinite wisdom has the right to do that, but I find the man vs man version of triathlon to be less interesting.
At the TdF, I find the TT’s more interesting and I put much more stock in the TT winners as being the best riders, than the GC riders. Somewhat perversely, I most enjoy two cyclists trying to kill each other by hammering up hills. Great rides like Lance vs Pantani on Ventoux, gives me shivers every time I watch it. Other than that, it’s the TT’s. I’m more interested in watching to find out who is the best on the day, in a fair fight, rather than watching a heavyweight beat a welterweight in an uneven battle.
You’d think there would be less doping in ITU than Ironman cause most of the top guys are covered in the various national sport governing bodies’ out of competition testing pool. Most IM athletes don’t get tested till “potentially” race day (I say potentially cause you need a good enough placement to be tested), although that is theoretically changing with the WTC pro card.
I really don’t care about ITU, but then I do not care all that much about the IM pro’s either. I would far rather watch many other sports. The only reason I have any interest in the IM Pro race is cause I think I understand it a bit and it has a gee whiz these guys are fast appeal.
I think that they have really done all they can think of to make ITU racing spectator friendly and exciting, multiple laps, drafting, mass dive in starts etc. Not sure what else they can do.
I began triathlon because I already did two of the events, and adding a third was a challenge. I love the individual nature of the sport, trying to beat my own best efforts. There is still an aspect of placing which is important, but I don’t have to rely on anyone but myself to do the race.
Coming from a swimming background, normal triathlons are somewhat irritating as the swim is largely irrelevant. In some ways, ITU is better for the swim since if you are not in the front, you will never be in the lead pack, but it does for the bike what normal tri’s do for the swim. Largely a parade in anticipation of a run.
Given the run is my weakest leg, ITU has little to no interest for me since I will have even less chance of placing than I do now. I also no longer have the “individual” aspect as I am forced to race with others.
From a spectating perspective, come to Chicago and see how many people hang around to watch the pros. Its a TV sport, much like road course car racing. I have watched ITU on TV and it is fun.
in the original post everyone is bashing me for saying that the bike is easyer.
now i agree that the skills are better in ITU for the handling and group riding and so on. but i really think that seeing how you can draft of everyone you dont have to be as good as cycling. i’m not saying i don’t respect them i just think it is more like you said just a 10k after warming up
what would be interesting to see ITU in a IM distance
If they made ITU racing swim run bike, then every race would have a breakaway of skinny runners starting the bike. The gap should be around 2 minutes. Then the skinny runners can work together to limit the losses and then at 3 K to go, they can do the poker face look at each other wondering who is going to take a flyer and attack.
Meanwhile, the pack behind them is getting bigger and bigger and bigger as riders keep getting swept up like a snowball going downhill. Somewhere in the pack are three guys who can sprint better than anyone in the pack, but clearly they don’t want to do the work to pull the pack, so their teammates must. Meanwhile there are guys in the pack whose skinny teammates are up front in the runner breakaway. These teammates are trying to get to the front of the pack to slow it down. Coaches from pit lane are trying to meanwhile frantically relay splits (no race radios cause they guys swam first).
With 1K to go, there are 4 guys trying to stay ahead with 50 guys going 65 kph thundering in…does the pack get swallow up the breakaway, or do they stay away?
Every ITU race, could be like those TDF stages where we find out with 1000m to go whether “the fat lady sang or not…”
So no, I don’t think that ITU has done everything to make it exciting. Swim-run-bike and the bike becomes much more exciting and you have “two types of athletes” who could win…not just wet runners. In this format, wet-Cavendish wannabees can also win assuming they can run 33 minutes and also have a good team…In his day, an athlete like Spencer Smith or more recently Craig Walton.