Sorry if this has already been debated ad nauseum, but why is there no love for the ITU age group world championships?
I’m fresh into a new AG (M55-59), and with a recent AG Oly win and PB I started doing some research into the ITU AG world championships, with 2008 being in Vancouver.
It appears that qualifying is relatively easy. It also looks as though many entry spots go unclaimed. In looking at past results (e.g. Lausanne 2006), there’s a huge time differential within age groups, indicating that it’s not very competitive, and virtually anyone can qualify to be there.
If this event is open to virtually anyone, I’m left wondering if I’m just fooling myself to target this competition at great expense.
When I first started racing tris back in 1990 it was very hard to qualify for the age group team in Canada. Now I know people that are going around 2:20 and getting on the team in mens 30-34 so as mentioned, it is not difficult to qualify. I raced at the worlds in 1999 when it was n Montreal since that is less than 4 hours from my house. It was a fun experience but the cost was very high. Our federation charged me around $275 for being on the team and then I had to purchase the uniform on top of that so the age group athletes apparently are included to pay for the elites and national team officials (I remember one of the coaches following me in a kayak when I swam the course the day before … he tried to get me to “fix” my stroke the day prior to the world championships … good thing he was there for me!). I think that with the explosion of IM racing around the globe, where you actually get to race the same venue and race as the pro athletes is more appealing to a good age group athlete, than going to the ITU “World” championships where, with the exception of the top 10 or so, depending on when and where it is, the competition is not any better than many good local races (ex. Muskoka). I’ve noticed that, as IM racing gained in popularity, the difficulty in making the national team as an age grouper decreased significantly.
I’m racing a qualifier for the 2008 race in a month and don’t plan on taking a spot since I’ll likely be racing an IM next year.
Thanks Allan. That’s very helpful and confirms my suspicions.
Re your point: “I’m racing a qualifier for the 2008 race in a month and don’t plan on taking a spot since I’ll likely be racing an IM next year.”, I’m also planning to race an IM next year (LP) and was thinking that racing the Oly in Vancouver on June 8/08 might be a good complement and help with motivation for the next 12 months. Do you think those two races are too close together?
I’m considering racing in Drummondville on Aug 5 in the Canadian AG Championships, which has 8 qualifying spots per AG for Vancouver. But I’ll have to check out all of the costs, as this is not worth a divorce over :>)
Well as far as I am concerned, it will be a great event, and is NOT easy to qualify for. Much harder than completing an IM in 17 hours, which ANYONE can do basically, IMO.
Folks always love to say the times are slow. That means nothing. If one does not show up, thats the way it goes. No one can say what they would have done at a race unless
they were there.
I have qualified for both germany and vancouver, and do not consider my times easy for my AG. Were you at Nationals? 60% of the field were AA USAT.
Are you saying these folks are slow?
Cost, yep, I expect it will cost me 15K for the 4 of us going over. I could have a new car for this money. But, the experience and new friends I will meet will
be worth every penny. For many others, a total waste of time. But, representing my country, for me, is MUCH more exciting that being a lemming to the IM fade.
But who knows, may change my mind in the future.
Lets see, at nationals,
M25-29, top 16 all under 2:06
M30-35 top 16 all under 2:07
M35-39 top 16 all under 2:08
M40-44, top 16 all under 2:11
M45-49, top 16 all under 2:14
M50-54, top 16 all under 2:19
So, what is your age, and what was your time? What is your country? USA times seem to be pretty tough.
So, maybe you think the above times on a very hilly course was slow, but being there, now way, I thought they were great.
Its not about getting in. Its about racing with people from all over the world and sharing thoughts about sport and culture from different perspectives from around the world. Seriously, if you have not gone to an ITU world’s this is the nicest part of it. Just learning from others from around the world. I remember competing in the World Military Games in 1995 and chatting with a dude from Croatia about training in his country through those years…it sure put our lame ass North American complaints in perspective. This guy was dodging bullets and landmines, but still got out to train and be the best he could be.
Yep, that is the main reason I am going. Not to compete, that is for the top folk per country. But, to finally get off my butt, and see the world
based on all my hard work. (My only goal is to not be last in my AG.) Now, still hope to run into you one of these days, since we missed at WF this year.
Yes, we are totally spoiled in our part of the world. I thank the USA military who are helping to allow us to keep our spoiled life style.
I almost posted this same question a few days ago, as I also find the distinction (WTC vs. ITU worlds) interesting.
I think Dave (h20fun) missed the point. Finishing an IM in 17 hours doesn’t qualify you for anything. You want to go to Kona in one of the fast age groups, you are looking at finishing in around 10 hours. You want to go to ITU long course worlds, you pretty much just have to show up to a qualifier. (Until just a few years ago, USAT gave out the long course spots just based on submitting a race resume, as demand for spots at qualifiers was so low.) Besides using the times as a way to guage the quality of the people who qualify, look at the USAT rankings. There is a huge gap between the slower ITU qualifiers and the slower WTC qualifiers. Granted, at the front of the field you have great athletes in both groups, but there is not nearly as much depth in the ITU events.
I have never been to an ITU worlds, so I would like to hear from athletes who have been to both as to if the reason why ITU events are not as popular is a technical issue with the race, or a marketing issue where WTC has won the marketing war.
Paul, I got the point. Why do some have to rip apart another sport one may not be interested in?
Not even close that WTC has been in the right place at the right time and has had killer marketing!
They have gotten TV visibility, and have built up the brand that the average person can do it to
prove they are something. I take nothing away from that.
Now, has USAT done a good job in the past marketing their brand? Maybe not. But, I sure see them working
hard now! Will they ever catch up to the WTC? Probably not. And for me, who cares. I love to do what I think
is exciting, not what some marketing effort tries to make me believe.
Yep, the folks who qualify winning for Kona are fantastic, (may not be the roll down slots though).
Wondering how you can say you can basically go to worlds by just showing up at a qualifier? The races I have done
that had world spots usually had great times to win. Now, or Nationals, which was for 2007 worlds, are you saying the
US times are slow?
I was reading yesterday how automobiles, even the “compact” cars, keep getting bigger because that’s what the American consumer demands…Seems like it is the same with triathlon: bigger (i.e. longer) is better. I’ve believed that as a triathlon consumer myself.
I think the competition is still pretty tough, however, in most AGs to get a spot on the U.S. team for Worlds at the Olympic distance.
The fact that they do move the Worlds around may be a bit of the problem. Sure, there are cultural advantages to moving it around and it is likely a political necessity, but if they had put the Olympic worlds every year for the past 25 years on the same date in the same very attractive location (like Kona) it might have become more popular than it is now, at least among Americans.
Dave,
I am not trying to “rip” ITU or USAT; I legitimately would like to know why people don’t want to go to ITU worlds. I can assume that part of this has been due to athlete feedback over the years, but I don’t know.
My statement with regard to qualifying is based on the fact that about three years ago I thought about trying to qualify for ITU Long Course Worlds, so I looked into the process. Then (2004 I think) you did not have to show up at any race, just send in a letter saying you were interested in going. The information I found led me to believe that the prior few years enough slots went untaken at races that they had decided to just ask who wanted a slot, and you could take one. In the event there were more reqeusts than slots, I think they were going to use a lottery to decide who went.
In any case, I have also looked at the times of the people who actually took slots to ITU worlds events in the past, and the times were not nearly as competitive as qualifying for WTC events. It is true that the top athletes at nationals are fast, no doubt. But at a WTC event, Kona slots don’t roll down far, if at all. Yet at ITU qualifiers, they roll a long way.
I did try to quantify this, but I cannot find a website with the times of the actual qualifiers to ITU worlds. So maybe I am wrong, or maybe things have changed.
One thing I know for sure, is that of the local hot-shots, none go to ITU worlds or even the qualifiers, but all would LOVE to go to Kona.
I have done well enough at AG Nats and a few World’s qualifiers to have had the opportunity to be a member of Team USA in both long and short course tri and short course du. Have I ever gone to World’s? No.
Why? I just can’t afford it…or maybe I am just unwilling to spend my carefully budgeted travel money on one race.
While there are some very talented and deserving athletes placing well at the various world championships, and I mean to take nothing away from them, I also feel that the US is not sending the best athletes to represent us…they are sending the so-so athletes who have the time and money to pay for the qualifier’s, the travel, the uniforms, etc.
I know for a fact that this year 50% of the Team USA members for duathlon in my AG have never finished in front of me…and off they go to World’s where their performances were less than competitive. I don’t begrudge them going, and having what has only been described as a wonderful experience, but I wish there was a way that us regular folks could go too.
Paul, I agree with you that I never hear of folks wanting to go to ITU worlds. I agree WTC has done the marketing.
I also agree Americans just love bigger, longer, more, more more. (I wonder how we will react when the rest of the
world no longer lets us get away with this!!!)
I also have talked to folks about the ITU long, and yep, even fewer folks are interested and a lot of slots go empty. If I were good enough in
the half, I would take the energy and try to qualify for Kona, not ITU long course.
Just like folks who are great at Duathlons. They do not understand why there is not more interest.
Oh well, I enjoy the much smaller events than the IM races with 2 to 3 thousand folks all going at the same time,
with a number of the races with lots of drafting. (Now if it were legal, count me in.)
I have heard a lot of the world is not interested in Kona because it is too expensive to travel to. For US folks, it is cheap.
I have heard the ITU worlds are expensive to go to for US folks, since it moves around.
So, seems real real easy why, for at least US folks, why Kona is the only Tri race that matters. It is the only one anyone talks
about in the US. Most enjoy doing these type of races so they can wear their Mdot hats and tatoos around. I will have fun
wearing my Team USA clothes to races in the future, even though no one will know what it means.
While there are some very talented and deserving athletes placing well at the various world championships, and I mean to take nothing away from them, I also feel that the US is not sending the best athletes to represent us…they are sending the so-so athletes who have the time and money to pay for the qualifier’s, the travel, the uniforms, etc. <<
I’d agree with Gail. One of my training partners qualified for LC Worlds and went because she wanted to go to Australia. She’s back of FOP or front of MOP, depending on the race and easily qualified. She has also raced in Kona and qualified for Boston more than once, but these days would rather spend her time and travel money doing bike touring rather than spend a ton of money going to one race.
And for this year’s LC World’s, if you go by the USAT website that states that the top 3 in an AG qualifies, then you just need to cherry-pick your race because third place in my AG in one of the races was 8:20 for a 1/2 IM.
Yep, was just talking about this with the wife the other day. Once you get good enough in ANY sport, if you want to continue to improve and
compete with folks your ability level, one must have the money to travel the world. It has always been that way. Whether one is lucky and has
parents with money, or sponsorships, or whatever, it just comes with the sport or life. How many smart folks do you know that do not get a chance
to go to college because they do not have the money? Or, or, or? Now, even in a socialist country, is there no politics and only the “best”
get every opportunity?
Oh well, hope you get a chance to become a Team USA member one of these days. I will let you know hopefully in a few months
if the race/experience was worth not having a new car.
Its not about getting in. Its about racing with people from all over the world and sharing thoughts about sport and culture from different perspectives from around the world. Seriously, if you have not gone to an ITU world’s this is the nicest part of it.
yes, yes, yes: this is why i love going. i do all lengths of tri competition, but world’s is in a special category for the reasons dev put down. there are certainly people who go simply to do the race and do not enter into the other events/activities, hence don’t get to meet the other athletes. but for me, that’s where the fun is, plus the chance to compete for my own country. there are some VERY irritating elements involved which can’t be denied (e.g., the money gouge), but the overall experience is just great.
peggy