I’ve ridden a slew of different wheel combinations over the years:
Typical 30mm box rims
H3/H3
H3/Disc
50/50
60/Disc
60/90
I sold off all my old wheelsets and decided to go with Bontrager Aeolus 9/9 in the last half of 2013. I used that combo in three races towards the end of last year: sprint, IMCan, and IMFL.
I lucked out on race day with calm winds at all those races but there were a couple of training rides or pre-race rides in which the winds were whipping around and I had to white knuckle the bars to keep from killing myself. The 90/90 combo is a lot twitchier than what I’ve experienced before. I’m 6’0", 165-170 lbs., good bike handler, experienced rider. The winds were howling a couple of days before IMFL this year and my little 10 mile pre-race ride was downright scary with the 90 upfront. I know that might be an extreme example as it was really windy plus there’s the gusts along Front Beach Road. It was still unnerving.
It’s a matter of time before I race in some decent crosswinds and that concerns me. I have the Texas 70.3 in Galveston coming up in April and it can be very windy. Contemplating bailing on the front 9 and going with a 7. I never had these issues with a 60/90 (thousands of miles on a 60/90) and I’m assuming the 70/90 handles more like a 60/90 than a 90/90. A very, very tiny speed trade-off for better handling and piece of mind.
Another part of me wants to just suck it up and “maybe” I’ll get used to the the twitchiness of the front 90.
A disc in the rear might make it a little less twitchy but yes, 9s up front on some days are a little scary.
Nothing wrong with going to a 7, the aero difference is small at most yaw angles.
Yeah, I know the disc would help but I no longer have a disc. My 2014 Trek SC is 11-speed and both my Hed Jet Disc and Zipp 900 were no longer compatible or even convertible to 11-speed.
And I’m not about to spend $2500 on a Super-9 clincher.
Nor do I want to fuss around with a disc cover, especially with the SC which doesn’t play well with disc covers.
Same bike was used on the wheel combinations above? Roughly the same position?
If you’re nervous about the front wheel then go shallower. If you want to use the 9, consider running a disc or wheel cover in back. The disc in back won’t negatively impact steering, and it will provide a bit more stability up front. There are a lot of variables–the speed that you ride, how comfortable you are handling wind gusts, etc. But if this is an important race for you and you’re not confident with the 9, don’t use it. I’ll run a disc in back for all my races, regardless of wind, and will use a Hed 3 or an old Planet X 101. It does take some practice, but why risk it if you’re not comfortable. And the amount of time that you’ll save between the 7 and 9 won’t be huge, anyway–note that most riders most of the time will experience a yaw angle of <10 degrees, factor that in when looking at wheels.
I addressed the disc issue in my reply to Jack.
Most of those previous wheel combinations were used on my 2011 Speed Concept but I did use the 9/9 for the sprint and IMCan on that bike with the same twitchy problems I experienced in pre-race rides in Florida with the new SC. Position is almost identical. I think I’m a couple of mm lower on the new bike but that’s immaterial for all intents and purposes.
If it’s the newer D3 version with the wide rim and rounded rpofile similar to the Firecrest, it shouldn;t be too bad in cross winds. It’s really a personal preference. I think if I could do it again, I’d get a 808FC up front or a Aeolus 9 and run it all the time. But I got a great deal on a closeout 404 back in 2011. It is nice having a aluminum brake surface up front where you need it most (power and feedback)
If it’s the newer D3 version with the wide rim and rounded rpofile similar to the Firecrest, it shouldn;t be too bad in cross winds. It’s really a personal preference. I think if I could do it again, I’d get a 808FC up front or a Aeolus 9 and run it all the time. But I got a great deal on a closeout 404 back in 2011. It is nice having a aluminum brake surface up front where you need it most (power and feedback)
It’s the new D3 carbon clincher. Sustained crosswinds are less concerning to me than gusty crosswinds. I guess I should have elaborated that it’s the gusts that are causing me issues. I just hadn’t experienced that level of twitchiness in gusty conditions.
IT a personal comfort factor. I don;t have expereince on a bicycle with a deep profile rim, however I’ve ridden a multiple fully faired (meaning the whole side profile of the bike is a giant sail) motorcyles with 40+mph gusts and its’ manageable even at 70mph. You just have to have descent reflexes and not overcompensate and stay relaxed.
Now, will it be a disadvantage? Possibly since that can use up mental and physicaly energy fighting winds… but you concern is will you crahs because of it? Not if you’re a descent bike handler or are doing something stupid like trying to change out a bottle while in the aerobars in those conditions.
I’ve been racing on the Aeolus D3 7s for the last two years. My favorite wheelset I’ve ever had (and I’ve had a lot). By all means, race what will give you the most confidence to attack the course. But as others have said, running a disc or adding a wheel cover to the rear will enhance stability a bit. I use a cover on my rear D3 7 on race days. I’ve had a few windy days and have not had any problems (I’m 5’7 and 155). If you want to believe the marketing materials, the D3 7 is the equal of an 808, aerodynamically, but with better handling because of its lesser depth.
I run a 95mm in the front and hadn’t had any problems with it during the time I raced with it last year. I did Leadman with that wheel and it wasn’t exactly calm weather through most of that race.
I think the comparison to a motorcycle is a bit of a stretch…I rode fully faired bikes in windy conditions but what makes it easier is the weight of the bike itself. I doubt that a Trek Speed Concept is comparable to a fully faired Yamaha.
I feel ya. It’s funny no matter how many times people bring this up someone always says something to the effect " I don’t have a problem and I ride my front disc in hurricanes" . Perhaps with the implication that your skillset is lacking. Your comfort is your comfort, if you aren’t feeling rock solid then how fast are you going to be able to go?
I’d try to find someone who will trade ya. The disc might help a little (took me a while to wrap my brain around that too) but sounds like you’d just be happier on a 5 or 7. How many seconds do you gain back when you don’t have to get anxious about a weather report for 35 mph gusts perpendicular to the course? Another option is just to make room in your quiver for a rough day front. Use it for training and days when the flags are flapping, a 5 or a 404 is a better choice there as you want extra versatility. I ride a 808/disc combo on my TT and swap on my road bike front (a 404) when things get sideways.
I’ll trade you my 2007 Aeolus 6.5 tubies for your 9’s. solves your handling issue, and best of all I live in Houston. So if you’re flying into bush, you can swing by my place on the way to Galveston and make the swap. Win-Win.
I think the comparison to a motorcycle is a bit of a stretch…I rode fully faired bikes in windy conditions but what makes it easier is the weight of the bike itself. I doubt that a Trek Speed Concept is comparable to a fully faired Yamaha.
That was my first thought as well. Having ridden new and old Gold wings (can’t get more fairing than that) along with fully faired race bikes, the only thing I feared was the dreaded tank slapper. Gusty cross winds on the freeway when I’m doing well over the posted limit (use your imagination although all bikes have a maximum speed), passing full loaded, swaying semis does create some exciting times.
But, with the added weight, the motorbike doesn’t change lanes on its own nearly as fast as a Tri bike would and by consciously using counter steering on the motor bike you can keep it under control.
Mate almost no-one here on the gold coast is running anything deeper than a 7 front for exactly that reason… the compressed gusting winds… here with the hi rises on the coast line, hinterland right behind you, the wind is always up to something… its not the rider… just wrong wheel selection for the conditions…
I always take a back up front wheel for every race day (an Aeolus 5) and switch it in… i.e. size down just in case… 2:30 ot 5:00 of wondering when your gonna be tossed off the road is a PITA, and the bike leg is meant to be the comfy bit before the pain…
Speed loss is less than ending up on my head… and the 5 and 7 aren’t exactly slow wheels…
Huh…I didn’t really have any problems riding my front FLO 90 last Sunday in conditions that featured (according to the closest Wunderground.com station) 20-25mph sustained winds, with gusts to 35mph…probably realistically ~1/2 that at bike level, which is still a lot.
…And I’m basically your size. My suggestion would be to possibly ride more in those conditions and learn to relax and “absorb the blows” rather than tensing up and jerking the bars when a gust hits. Just a thought
Oh…and what tire are you running on front? Running a tire with an aero shape should help further delay the yaw angle that flow separation occurs (when forces on the wheel can change dramatically). I was running a Conti 4000S on Sunday.
Edit: I was looking at the wrong weather station apparently…the conditions were actually more like 15-20mph wind, with gusts to 25 during the TT I did on Sunday.
Like I said, I hadn’t experienced twitchiness like that in any other wheel combination I have used before. I use 4000s tires as well.
Here’s the bike, position, and all that:
As I mentioned before, I used to run a disc rear all the time but neither of my discs could be converted to 11-speed so I sold them (Hed Jet and Zipp 900 clinchers). Disc covers don’t work on the Speed Concept according to Wheelbuilder, etc. I know there are ways to MacGyver one on there to get it to work but I’m not fussing around with all that bullshit. There aren’t many options in carbon clincher discs and I’m not dropping $2500 on a Zipp Super-9 for barely any gain. I’m sure you are well aware those Bontrager wheels are super fast and test ridiculously well.
If a Jet disc works in there, I don’t understand why a cover on the Aeolus 9 wouldn’t. It’s basically the same thing. Where would it rub? It’s not like it has the “zig-zag” stays like on a Transition, does it?
