What do you think about these comments? Is he a bad person for feeling that way or just dumb for saying it in public? Maybe it is just what it is, a reality and people should live with it like other horrible facets of war?
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20050204-9999-1n4marine.html
I can understand him saying “It’s a hell of a hoot.” This guy has trained his whole life to fight and put bullets on target. He’s in a war zone, adrenaline pumping, getting to do what he apparently loves.
On the other hand, I cannot fathom his comment, “It’s fun to shoot some people.” The insurgents and terrorists are certainly evil people, but to say it’s fun to shoot them? We are still all human beings and to enjoy shooting/killing someone is, to me, unconscionable.
I’m certain he’s not alone in his sentiments. But it was really dumb to say that publically.
Almost all commentary is going to be overly obvious. However, I found the General’s comment interesting, that the Lt Gen was too candid. Not that it was a bad thing, but it was too candid.
Or the blog comment that things like that just shouldn’t be said in front of civilians.
What do I think? It’s a very typical of the view of most people in any military role in any country in any time.
He’s really stupid to say it in any format that would wind up being for public consumption. It is yet another minor “black eye” for the US and our soldiers that diminishes all the good their actions.
It is in fact just an undeniable reality of an attitude that is almost inevitable when you train humans to kill others. I know MANY people in the Army whose view is “The only way to stop terrorism is kill ‘them’ all.”
We should NOT just live with it though. Nor should we merely accept war. We should continue to hold ourselves as humans and as Americans to a higher standard of conduct.
I’ve never been shot at for defending my country. Therefore I wouldn’t comment on what he said.
I’m interested about the opinions of St’ers who’ve served in an active combat zones.
I remember the news pictures of Special Forces leaving pictures of the World Trade Center pinned to the bodies of dead Taliban fighters. Felt pretty good about it. Being that I lost friends and all.
George Orwell wrote: “People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”
thoughts, St’ers…
B.
Ridgewood, NJ, USA
I’ve met plenty of guys coming back from Afghanistan or Iraq (not been there myself recently), and I can’t think of any of them that said war is “fun” or that it was “fun” to shoot the bad guys. In general, I don’t think they feel really bad about it, but I’m not sure “fun” is the right word. I think that kind of statement is more typical of the bravado soldiers show after they get back from war or years afterward when they tell war stories. Generals, normally, aren’t out there doing much shooting themselves anyways.
i would be interested as to whether or not LtGen Jarhead finds it “fun” to return home to Sunny D and see a live, breathing and totally un-shot OBL still ranting about some caliphate shit on the teevee
this predictably sad little episode reminds me of a poem:
In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
Who, squatting upon the ground,
Held his heart in his hands,
And ate of it.
I said, “Is it good, friend?”
“It is bitter – bitter”, he answered,
“But I like it
Because it is bitter,
And because it is my heart.”
Before you judge, make sure you listen to the entire sound bite. It sounded more like the guys in the locker room before the big football game psyching themselves up. I thought it was pretty innocuous, absent some actual questionable action.
Before you judge, make sure you listen to the entire sound bite.
Thanks, old man.
Where would the obvious be without you to point it out?
It sounded more like the guys in the locker room before the big football game psyching themselves up.
No, Art, when you’re speaking to a room full of people and there’s a microphone in front of you, that would be the press conference AFTER the big game.
All the “dead by Christmas” stuff in 9/01 was the pre-game in the locker room…and to be fair, we played a really great first quarter.
But even jarheads get tired…and it was an away game.
I lost lots of friends too and that doesn’t make me feel good at all.
I know my friends - they would have hated that. It makes it out to jist be a numbers game - One of them for one of Us. It cheapens the memory of our victims.
What be your reaction if the US started finding photos of the Taliban pined to dead US troops?
"i would be interested as to whether or not LtGen Jarhead finds it “fun” to return home to Sunny D and see a live, breathing and totally un-shot OBL still ranting about some caliphate shit on the teevee "
I would be interested to see people like you speak about the men and women defending your freedom with a little respect, even if you disagree with what they say.
I’m not judging Art, just commenting on what I’ve heard.
I would be interested to see people like you speak about the men and women defending your freedom with a little respect, even if you disagree with what they say.
But I don’t disagree with what he said, slowguy.
He said he finds it fun to kill some people. I agree that he finds it fun to kill some people…but no one should be unclear about the fact that he was tasked with bringing OBL or AaZ to justice and he failed. Period.
To go around crowing about your personal killing fetish is strange and a little declasse, but not something with which I disagree.
As for our servicemen and women in Iraq, dying for a lie isn’t defending my freedom. Neither is getting kinky with leashes, or running over IEDs, “fun” though it may be.
Nothing in Iraq posed any threat to my freedom as an American taxpayer, so the expenditure of lives and dollars is, by definition, a waste facilitated by a series of demonstrable lies.
You, slowguy, are free to imagine that Iraq was threatening us with its non-existent WMD, and that if we hadn’t found the WMD they didn’t have they might have (not) used it on one of our cities. That’s your right,
But I don’t have to respect it.
There were people like you around during the Vietnam era, who swore if we didn’t stop the commie menace in the Central Highlands, it would make its way to Saigon and then Kansas City.
Those people were wrong. The lives lost in Vietnam were lost for nothing save a badly planned adventure of empire, just like those lost in Iraq today.
Feel free to disagree.
But I’ll ask you to please not to be respectful about it.
I didn’t wear the uniform (Navy) for 8 years to walk around on eggshells whenever somebody who hasn’t done their reading waves a flag in my face.
Freedom, a resigned man once said, is untidy.
“but no one should be unclear about the fact that he was tasked with bringing OBL or AaZ to justice and he failed. Period.”
He was tasked with helping Afghanistan overthrow the Taliban, and subsequently with commanding Marines during the initial invasion and subsequent stability ops in Iraq. Period.
“As for our servicemen and women in Iraq, dying for a lie isn’t defending my freedom. Neither is getting kinky with leashes, or running over IEDs, “fun” though it may be.”
Agree or disagree with the National Security priorites set by this administration, the servicemembers fighting overseas are doing so because they all took oaths to defend the Constitution. They are defending your freedoms, even if you don’t personally agree with the way Pres Bush thinks those freedoms need to be defended.
“Nothing in Iraq posed any threat to my freedom as an American taxpayer, so the expenditure of lives and dollars is, by definition, a waste facilitated by a series of demonstrable lies.”
Well, lots of National Security experts disagree with you.
“But I don’t have to respect it.”
I don’t care if you respect my assessment of Iraq as a threat or not, but referring to a pretty well respected Marine Corps officer as “LtGen Jarhead.” is lame and disrespectful of a guy who has spent his entire life (not just 8 years) serving his country.
“There were people like you around during the Vietnam era, who swore if we didn’t stop the commie menace in the Central Highlands, it would make its way to Saigon and then Kansas City.”
I don’t know what you mean by “people like you” since you don’t know me or what I think.
“I didn’t wear the uniform (Navy) for 8 years to walk around on eggshells whenever somebody who hasn’t done their reading waves a flag in my face.”
Apparently you didn’t learn much in your 8 years if you think it’s cool to disrespect fairly senior officers. I also don’t know what reading you think I was supposed to do, or why you think I’m waving a flag in your face. All I was suggesting is that you make your point without name calling. I assume you’re older than 10, so that shouldn’t be too much of a problem.
thank you! there is nothing to add!
I served with Lt. Gen. Mattis when he was the Regimental Commader for the 7th Marines when I was a young 1stLt. He had quite a reputation even then. His normal discourse was to get ready for war with N. Korea. He spoke about it and going to combat so often that almost every Marine in the Regiment felt it was an inevitability that we were going to war at any moment. I am not saying he did the right thing by making this statement in front of the media, but that is who he is. He never pulled any punches then and because of that, a lot of people thought he would never get his star. Well, now he has 3.
You sometimes hear about coaches being referred to as a players coach. Lt. Gen. Mattis is a Marines General. He is what he is and we should all be thankful that there are people like him keeping the wolf off of our doorstep. So he is not the most PC guy in the world. Frankly, I don’t want him to be.
I understand why some people are bothered by this, but I see it the same as internal conversations between cops or firefighters etc. There are certain jobs, that due to the stress and their very nature require a different perspective for survival mentally and emotionally. The people I know that are firefighters and cops say things and find humor in things most people would not because that is their daily existence.
I think he chose a poor time to say what he said, but I am not surpised by your description of him.