With the Olympics going on and testing for the games being quite thorough is now the best time for non Olympic athletes to be doping? Are the anti doping resources all tied up with the Olympics? This is a genuine question and I’d love to hear from people who know athletes on RTPs whether they are being tested as normal right now or not.
With the Olympics going on and testing for the games being quite thorough is now the best time for non Olympic athletes to be doping? Are the anti doping resources all tied up with the Olympics? This is a genuine question and I’d love to hear from people who know athletes on RTPs whether they are being tested as normal right now or not.
It’s pretty hard, nigh on impossible, to catch an athlete who is doping unless they’re very unlucky and/or stupid. Athletes that are microdosing can simply microdose late at night. There’s a 4-7 hour testing window for testing for EPO, so there is little chance of any of them getting caught. They need a different approach. Start looking at an athletes progression profile in more depth, look out for potential red flags e.g there’s been a few sprinters that have gone from 500th in the world to world/olympic champions in less than 2 years. Doesn’t mean they doped, but it warrants greater investigation. They don’t get the benefit of the doubt and are subjected much heavier testing.
Think you would actually be surprised how little even those athletes actually competing at the Olympics get tested.
If you’re talking age groupers then it’s always been a free for all. I remember a study a while back at Ironman Germany that came out with about 30% of the field I think it was admitting to being on some form of PED. You’ve got a perfect mix of an affluent cohort that can afford to alongside hyper competitiveness. There’s zero chance of being randomly tested through the year as some billy age grouper so unless you are stupid and turn up to race day glowing then have at it. Even then you’d have to be someone randomly tested.
If referring to the pros then I don’t know. Depends on how high profile you are I guess. I watched Icarus on Netflix and it seems pretty easy still to defeat the controls. Pan Zhanle’s 100m swim the other day has certainly got my BS radar well and truly firing!
Exactly. And logically, since EPO doping is so easy to get away with, and at least 1% of the population are psychopaths, there is inevitably a doping contingent. Given that EPO gives you say 5-10% on your oxygen transport, you’d expect at least the entire 99th percentile of recorded VO2max results to be dirty. Make of that what you want
If you’re talking age groupers then it’s always been a free for all. I remember a study a while back at Ironman Germany that came out with about 30% of the field I think it was admitting to being on some form of PED. I’d merely point out that that ‘study’ used anonymous questionnaires and included caffeine in the ‘being on some form of PED’ percentage.
Fair enough - didn’t know about the caffeine. I’d still wager 10% of any Ironman field at the big events is on some sort of programme. You see some guys well into their 50’s pumping out ridiculous times still that are just ‘not normal’.
This is always pointed out very quickly as some sort of defense of doping but you still had people self-admitting to some real forms of doping so that # is probably higher, even once you take out the legal performance aides. AG cheating is all sorts of gross & it is a problem. The findings of that study aren’t any less than because you can throw some people out.
“12-month prevalences for physical and cognitive doping were 13.0% and 15.1%, respectively. The prevalence estimate for physical doping was significantly higher in athletes who also used physical enhancers, as well as in athletes who took part in the European Championship in Frankfurt compared to those who did not.”
This is still based on people owning up to it anonymously, & the trend was that the #'s went up for more competitive events.
** Pan Zhanle’s 100m swim the other day has certainly got my BS radar well and truly firing!**
Out of curiosity, why him? I mean, of all the incredible Olympic performances we have witnessed (i.e. Remco’s double, Marchand’s multiple golds, Ledecky’s dominance) and this is the only one that gets you going? Not defending the guy, and suspect Sun Yang’s infamous legacy weights heavily on any successful Chinese swimmer, but I don’t see anything to immediately flag the guy among other incredible performances?
Chinese doping scandal + a lot of those athletes going on to compete at the Olympics. The WR being smashed in a slow pool. Etc.
** Pan Zhanle’s 100m swim the other day has certainly got my BS radar well and truly firing!**
Out of curiosity, why him? I mean, of all the incredible Olympic performances we have witnessed (i.e. Remco’s double, Marchand’s multiple golds, Ledecky’s dominance) and this is the only one that gets you going? Not defending the guy, and suspect Sun Yang’s infamous legacy weights heavily on any successful Chinese swimmer, but I don’t see anything to immediately flag the guy among other incredible performances?
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2 dozen Chinese national team swimming got caught doling within the last few years, and nothing was done about it. Hard to shed that speculation, along with Sun Yang of course. The Russians systematic doping was not long ago, so it’s perfectly reasonable to assume there are nations still doing this.
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The margin of victory was pretty incredible for a 100 free.
I think the words of Brett hawke sum up my feelings too:
“That’s not real, you don’t beat that field – Kyle Chalmers, David Popovici, Jack Alexy – you don’t beat those guys by one full body length in 100 freestyle. That’s not humanly possible, okay.”
It’s very different to ledecky putting a quarter of a length on second over the course of 30 lengths. Marchand probably a fairer point but France doesn’t have the recent doping legacy as per the poster above that china does.
If you’re talking age groupers then it’s always been a free for all. I remember a study a while back at Ironman Germany that came out with about 30% of the field I think it was admitting to being on some form of PED. You’ve got a perfect mix of an affluent cohort that can afford to alongside hyper competitiveness. There’s zero chance of being randomly tested through the year as some billy age grouper so unless you are stupid and turn up to race day glowing then have at it. Even then you’d have to be someone randomly tested.
If referring to the pros then I don’t know. Depends on how high profile you are I guess. I watched Icarus on Netflix and it seems pretty easy still to defeat the controls. Pan Zhanle’s 100m swim the other day has certainly got my BS radar well and truly firing!
There was a controversially discussed anonymous poll at Challenge Roth recently, where 11% of age groupers admitted to use something. One Master age grouper gave a somehow unreal insight into his habits injecting epo and greasing testosterone.
If you’re talking age groupers then it’s always been a free for all. I remember a study a while back at Ironman Germany that came out with about 30% of the field I think it was admitting to being on some form of PED. You’ve got a perfect mix of an affluent cohort that can afford to alongside hyper competitiveness. There’s zero chance of being randomly tested through the year as some billy age grouper so unless you are stupid and turn up to race day glowing then have at it. Even then you’d have to be someone randomly tested.
If referring to the pros then I don’t know. Depends on how high profile you are I guess. I watched Icarus on Netflix and it seems pretty easy still to defeat the controls. Pan Zhanle’s 100m swim the other day has certainly got my BS radar well and truly firing!
There was a controversially discussed anonymous poll at Challenge Roth recently, where 11% of age groupers admitted to use something. One Master age grouper gave a somehow unreal insight into his habits injecting epo and greasing testosterone.
I think many / most dopers wouldn’t admit it even in an anonymous poll. Frankly, it’s just dumb to admit anything in an “anonymous” poll. Too much risk it’s not truly anonymous. So if 11% admit it, the real numbers are likely higher.
I guess everyone here is hung up on AG doping which I couldn’t care less about. I’m very curious about the pros though so if anyone happens to have any insight I’d love to hear it.
I mean, the Olympics has its own testing + you’d have to be really bad to get caught at the Olympics in 2024. I would guess it’s still normal for each anti doping agency but, as we know, some are a lot better at it than others. Seems like the more common trend is to be doping before the season starts. Wouldn’t think it’s a free for all now. The biggest races are happening now & if you’re not at them it’s not like doping now gets you there in 4 years.
If you’re talking age groupers then it’s always been a free for all. I remember a study a while back at Ironman Germany that came out with about 30% of the field I think it was admitting to being on some form of PED. You’ve got a perfect mix of an affluent cohort that can afford to alongside hyper competitiveness. There’s zero chance of being randomly tested through the year as some billy age grouper so unless you are stupid and turn up to race day glowing then have at it. Even then you’d have to be someone randomly tested.
If referring to the pros then I don’t know. Depends on how high profile you are I guess. I watched Icarus on Netflix and it seems pretty easy still to defeat the controls. Pan Zhanle’s 100m swim the other day has certainly got my BS radar well and truly firing!
There was a controversially discussed anonymous poll at Challenge Roth recently, where 11% of age groupers admitted to use something. One Master age grouper gave a somehow unreal insight into his habits injecting epo and greasing testosterone.
FFS will this ever die, it was 10 years ago and they included caffeine tablets as PEDs, the whole study was bunk.
Seems a good time for Chinese swimmers to dope.
Though it seems that every day is a good say for Chinese swimmers to dope, when they’ll inevitably be let off for some bogus reason.
China - the new Russia when it comes to doping.
Edit.
Adam Peaty has some thoughts on it too.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/cxx226nlgrwo
I think the words of Brett hawke sum up my feelings too:
“That’s not real, you don’t beat that field – Kyle Chalmers, David Popovici, Jack Alexy – you don’t beat those guys by one full body length in 100 freestyle. That’s not humanly possible, okay.”
It’s very different to ledecky putting a quarter of a length on second over the course of 30 lengths. Marchand probably a fairer point but France doesn’t have the recent doping legacy as per the poster above that china does.
yeah, no way that is said if a white guy did it. been on the earth long enough to know racism when i hear it.
if it was an american, the first thing the commentators would do would be to clarify that the swimmer wasn’t involved in the doping scandal from tokyo yadda yadda.
sour grapes. innocent until proven guilty. bet he was one of the guys that swore left and right lance was innocent and the french were out to get americans. pffft. f that
perfect example: finke setting a new 1500m wr, beating out sun, who everyone complains was a doper. so a white dude breaks a wr set by a doper, in a notoriously slow pool… but nothing to see here. lol
I mean, the Olympics has its own testing + you’d have to be really bad to get caught at the Olympics in 2024. I would guess it’s still normal for each anti doping agency but, as we know, some are a lot better at it than others. Seems like the more common trend is to be doping before the season starts. Wouldn’t think it’s a free for all now. The biggest races are happening now & if you’re not at them it’s not like doping now gets you there in 4 years.
This.
US anti doping is handled by usada, who aren’t at the Olympics. If anything they’ve got fewer elite athletes to worry about locally.