Another thing it and the Clifton do not have is heel durability. Especially the Clayton 2. Not worth the $$ IMO due to such poor durability. If they can fix that and have a better insole or fix the STILL BLISTER issue in the arch (rumored to have been fixed but I disagree)–THEN they would have something.
I got 400+ miles out of the Clifton 1s
would be great to do a study on that if they is evidence that they reduce injury.
i guess most people say so as this is the catch line ( not saying at all its not a good shoe just saying there is marketing bias and i do think they have established themselves )
Really no achilles issues? They all seem to be 6mm or less heel drop which for me just spells achilles doom. It’s the only thing that has me not giving them a try. Anyone else come from a 10mm drop shoe to them? How did it go?
first, unless you came from something like vibram five fingers or a newton or an altra you came from a 10mm or more drop shoe. second, using your reasoning, everyone who runs up any grade for any significant period of time is placing their achilles in peril, no?
and finally, how is running in pumps good for your achilles?
That statement is dismissive and fanboy-ish.
Yes, rapidly increasing uphill running will increase your calf/achilles overuse injury risk.
If one changes heal-drop mid-training or mid-season, one is calling for trouble. Especially if one is older. Easy biology and physics behind that (stress an such).
Switching drop calls for an adaptation phase (best preseason), and every somewhat experienced runner would be aware and not skip that (unless they are talked into it)…
But I guess some people’s mileage is so low that they wouldn’t run into issues.
I for my part can’t just easily switch drop mid training block… recipe for disaster. But I am also not a gifted runner…so there is that.
And maybe I am just jaded, as I don’t like gimmicky shoes that get peddled as Panacea for all injuries and problems.
"Their point of difference is the shape of their midsole. Yes it’s maximum cushion but it’s the sidewall wrap and the wide base that really makes the difference. Other brands make shoes as thick. The other probably most defining piece for running is the rocker. The rocker eliminates the flex found in all other running shoes. The rocker will keep you coming back to Hoka or it will turn you away. Only you can figure that out.
You can break Hoka down to 3 shoes. Bondi, Clifton and Clayton. Yes there are others but from what we see on the roads both running and triathlon these are the shoes. For most runners coming in that don’t have functional needs for any of the shoes but more curiosity I would suggest the Clayton."
This sums it up nicely Dave!
I went from Kinvara/Newton Fate to Clayton and like the firmness, width, slightly more cushioning, and rocker. I’m not sure if the shoe makes me much faster than the others, but I still like them. The Clayton 2 has been awesome for me.
Though, it looks like Nike is “copying” some of the features and obviously has more marketing muscle. The “sub 2” shoe has a carbon “rocker” and thicker sole. Must feel good (or scary) for Hoka to influence such a big brand. I’ve never had luck with Nike running shoes, all too narrow (and I’ve tried them a ton of times). Interested to see how their new versions feel versus Hoka.
I read an nike interview before hoka existed and the nike engineer did say that a 25 mm was the fastest shoe they had made in the lab but they cant sell it to people. ( id love to find that intervie but cant find it )
Really no achilles issues? They all seem to be 6mm or less heel drop which for me just spells achilles doom. It’s the only thing that has me not giving them a try. Anyone else come from a 10mm drop shoe to them? How did it go?
first, unless you came from something like vibram five fingers or a newton or an altra you came from a 10mm or more drop shoe. second, using your reasoning, everyone who runs up any grade for any significant period of time is placing their achilles in peril, no?
and finally, how is running in pumps good for your achilles?
That statement is dismissive and fanboy-ish.
Yes, rapidly increasing uphill running will increase your calf/achilles overuse injury risk.
If one changes heal-drop mid-training or mid-season, one is calling for trouble. Especially if one is older. Easy biology and physics behind that (stress an such).
Switching drop calls for an adaptation phase (best preseason), and every somewhat experienced runner would be aware and not skip that (unless they are talked into it)…
But I guess some people’s mileage is so low that they wouldn’t run into issues.
I for my part can’t just easily switch drop mid training block… recipe for disaster. But I am also not a gifted runner…so there is that.
And maybe I am just jaded, as I don’t like gimmicky shoes that get peddled as Panacea for all injuries and problems.
Any thoughts on how to handle the adaptation phase? I really think the cushioning would help my overall feeling post run for sure but no idea how to approach the change not to wreck my achilles.
I’ve run in nothing but Hoka’s since mid-2012 and they have been life changing. I honestly thought my running days were over until I found them.
If they are a fad and I ever get wind of them fading away, I will be scouring the earth to hoard enough Clifton’s in men’s size 10 to last me the rest of my life. I’ll build a special air-tight room to preserve the foam for at least 40 years.
yep - was not able to run, with insertional Achilles tendonitis, but Hokas let me run.
If they fade away I’ll help fund your air-tight room in exchange for some storage space…
Another thing it and the Clifton do not have is heel durability. Especially the Clayton 2. Not worth the $$ IMO due to such poor durability. If they can fix that and have a better insole or fix the STILL BLISTER issue in the arch (rumored to have been fixed but I disagree)–THEN they would have something.
a new model is coming out in July and is suppose to address the durability and a new upper
I have a good collection of Clifton 1s, a few Clifton 2s, Hauka’s, and ONE pair of Bondi 4s. I’m 6’ 220lbs, I need the extra cushioning of these shoes.
Usually I run in the Cliftons and Haukas and pretty much love them. I have a pair of Nike Lunar racers I mix in occasionally. Long run this past weekend I decided to dust off the Bondis for 12 miles. 4 miles in: rolled my ankle. NEVER had an issue before, but for some reason it just felt like these are “higher” and want to roll out. Needless to say that sucks and my ankle is purple…and I’m spooked of the Bondis. They just feel “tippy” to me, unlike my Cliftons.
I’ll be looking at trying the Claytons in the near future, but I have a nice collection of Cliftons stored up, so I’m in no rush. But I sure love these shoes (except for the Bondi that tried to break my ankle!).
My husband is a professor of Biomechanics. When he bought a pair of Stintson Tarmac Hokas, when they first came out, I did not hesitate for one nanosecond, and bought a pair as well. He likes to buy shoes and cut them up and put them in a machine that beats the crap out of them for days to see how they hold up. He also has many of his students do specific testing with these high cushion shoes to see how they perform. We have been in them ever since. No more compression sleeves needed, no pain in my feet, and I am so much more comfortable on long runs. He was never a fan of minimalist shoes for long distance running, but he was all over these when they came out. Still, he believes that not one shoe will work for everyone. He does recommend having three different type of shoes to rotate and try to run on different surfaces to avoid over use injuries. A high cushion shoe might be a good option to add to your running collection.
A few thoughts on the rolling of the ankle. The softness of the Bondi could be the problem. Depending on your running gait you may just be putting enough pressure on the outside of your foot with that super soft shoe not holding up to it.
The other thing to watch for is the simple fact that soft shoes wear out faster. The Clifton although not as soft as the Bondi will wear out. By that I mean they will get softer. When I see runners running in Cliftons that are worn down it’s rather ugly. I want to stop them and plead with them to get a new par.
The Clayton is firm. It’s a different ride then your Clifton and it should hold up well from the midsole point of view.
Hears hoping your ankle heals up quickly.
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Any thoughts on how to handle the adaptation phase? I really think the cushioning would help my overall feeling post run for sure but no idea how to approach the change not to wreck my achilles.
This was what worked on my second try, as I royally screwed up my lower calfs.achilles the first time I switched:
I introduced the 0-drop shoes in my rotation with increasing frequency on the easy and shorter runs first.
I also switched all my casual/business footwear to 0-drop.
I did a lot of the calf/achilles releases (heel drop etc.)
I always ended up having achilles tendon insertion issues in 0-drop plush and softer shoes, even so my gait is pretty neutral.
I now race and do speed in 0-drops, but still go back to plush conventional drop shoes (Saucony Triumph) for my long runs…so far so good.
slowman knows…
legit?
You betcha baby!
I need to wear over the counter orthotics for some support in my arch. Wear them in all shoes; running, work, dress, casual. For the Hoka’s I just took out the regular insoles and put in the orthotics. I use Superfeet orthotics exclusively in the Hoka’s and they do well for me. For some reason the Spenco’s don’t fit as well.
For those talking about having Achilles problems. You all may need to work on flexibility issues before using a lower drop shoe a lot. I can actually switch between my zero drop Altras to my higher heel Asics with no problems. For me that was never a problem with the Hoka’s but if I had real tight Achilles I’d work on loosening those just to be able to try the Hoka’s. As always everyone is different so YMMV.
In the ankle roll department. I have very loose ankles. I can roll a ankle in any shoe doing anything even walking on a side walk and stepping on a small stone. That being said I have no more ankle rolls in my Hoka’s then I do in my Asics that are fairly low stack and I run predominantly trails.
Love my hoka bondi’s. Switched after years of running in Asics Gel Nimbus to the Bondi’s and have not looked back. Yeah, they look like clown shoes, but they give me huge confidence on longer runs and have greatly reduced my recovery time and knee pain. I think they are here to stay.
That’s crazy talk. Of course this coming from the guy who pulled the plug on the adidas Supernova Classic to the shagrin of a number of runners and retailers. That said I don’t think Hoka will discontinue the Bondi. It’s their signature shoe, the shoe that really defines the brand. It was a bold move when the market was all over minimalism to come out with a shoe that has so much midsole it looked funny at the time. Now it’s their signature and it looks normal. I’m sure someone from Hoka is reading this and agreeing with my statement. The Bondi is not going away.
I’ll chime in with my two cents.
Picked up a pair online for a good price last week, and had my first run in them yesterday.
So, I’ve worn them for 15 seconds in the store when I picked up my online order (to confirm the size was correct) and then for a 30 minute run yesterday.
My impression: soft. Walking in the store I found them even softer than I thought they would be. It was like walking on a competitive gymnastics floor, for anyone that knows what that is like. Running in them I ran on a dirt road and was pretty impressed. My calves were working more than with my regular shoes (Saucony Jazz or Kinvaras) not sure if it was a one off or not.
I see myself wearing them on long runs in the future for sure. But ask me again after I’ve ran in them a few times.
Which superfeet are you using. I have worn black in all other shoes and am having slight discomfort in Hokas (Clifton). Thanks,
A lot of people on my triathlon team love Hokas, especially for trail running.
I’ve tried them a few times. I had the Bondis and running downhill they certainly are amazing; absorb so much shock.
I used them while rehabing an Achilles injury (Nike Pegasus being the normal shoe).
I went back and tried Claytons b/c my team mate raved about them. Hated them.
Then tried the Cliftons. Probably the best overall fit for me. But I didn’t like how you couldn’t feel the subtleties in the road surface (like going up on a driveway lip).
I’m now using Saucony Freedoms. Amazing shoe. Ironically they have pretty much zero support (very flexible shoe) but they let your foot flex naturally.
The sole material is in between a Hoka and an adidas with bounce. Absorbs a ton of shock though there is better feedback than the Hokas.
I had problems running with adidas bounce shoes; for some reason, they hurt my knees.
But the Freedoms are awesome. Cushion with responsiveness. Hokas were way too dull and clunky to me.
To answer your question, though, I think they are legit. Just not for me.
our local is throwing out Claytons on the cheap (relatively cheap anyway- I have to order in my size still). What didn’t you like about them? I want to try hokas but not sure if I want to fork out for cliftons (these seem to be the most popular)
FWIW my long/easy shoe is brooks launch and race shoe (sprints) varies from saucony type a, mizuno musha 5 etc…im looking at an easy mile shoe, 4mm drops etc don’t bother me
Which superfeet are you using. I have worn black in all other shoes and am having slight discomfort in Hokas (Clifton). Thanks,
I’m using the blue ones. I have problems with high arches and they provide just enough stability in the mid-foot that I don’t overpronate too much. I really prefer Spencos but they don’t fit the Hokas as well as the Superfeet do. Right now I’m running in Bondi 4 and Speedgoats. In the past I’ve also used Mafates and Stinsons.
Well I hope they never go away. The Bondi has been a blessing for me and it’s only since I started using them in 2013 have I been able to run multiple days in a row without discomfort.
Completed IM Florida in a different shoe in 2011 and Hokas in 2013. The difference in how I felt at the end of the day and the next morning was like night and day. Hokas for the win!