Does Jan take a back seat? Is this the start of a new GOAT? Is he the new GOAT?
From Breakfast with Bob. Let it sink in. “So when I look at everything you’ve accomplished - what you have done in the last year and a half is basically someone’s career. Gold medal, 70.3 Worlds, Ironman Worlds, Sub 7 hours, Canadian Open…”
He’s off to a good start but I would like to see some sustainability to the wins. For me, if he completely falls flat next year then no. Highly unlikely to see that though because he’s a beast. He’s absolutely raising the bar.
I wish we would retire this term. He’s the best current triathlete of the last few years and there are about 5 guys who have a roughly equivalent pedigree in the last 40 years.
GOAT just means best currently or recently active athlete.
I don’t know the answer to this so it isnt an attack - just curiosity.
Who has that many top level wins in under 2 years? There are people yes but it usually takes them years to accumulate such wins.
I somewhat agree - unless you line up a careers worth of pedigree, it is hard to tell who the actual greatest of all time has been. Have to wait until people retire from sport to decide that as it is a historical measure.
So edit would be: Could Blu be the greatest of all time because Jan seems to be taking that title as of now.
I think with tri it’s just too hard to compare times across generations of athletes. Wetsuit, bike, and running shoe tech has just advanced so much over the years.
So while the sub-7 and ironman records are super impressive, I think in the discussion of the GOAT they are not super useful. How fast could Mark Allen have got if he had a skin suit, Cervelo P5, Nike Alpha Fly, better access to a wind tunnel…yada, yada, yada.
I think a better way to compare across generations is how well did they perform against their contemporaries
Kristian has an one gold each in the Olympic, WTC (ITU), 70.3 WC, Full Ironman WC. Crazy impressive and I am sure he will continue to rack up wins at world championship level events. That being said, his trophy cabinet is still smaller than Mark Allen and Jan among other athletes.
I don’t know the answer to this so it isnt an attack - just curiosity.
Who has that many top level wins in under 2 years? There are people yes but it usually takes them years to accumulate such wins.
I somewhat agree - unless you line up a careers worth of pedigree, it is hard to tell who the actual greatest of all time has been. Have to wait until people retire from sport to decide that as it is a historical measure.
So edit would be: Could Blu be the greatest of all time because Jan seems to be taking that title as of now.
I think that’s the more reasonable question to ask. And of course the answer is yes. He COULD be the next generation “GOAT”. But his career has just started. He has had an amazing 2 years, and it could very well be the start of a wonderful long career of awesome races between him and Gustav Iden, and hopefully others. But again, this is just the beginning. I’ve been following him since before he started winning and you can see his progression, and he’s always been a fantastic racer, leaves everything on the course.
But is he NOW the GOAT? Come on… that’s just silly.
If he keeps this pace up, obviously.
GOAT though implies just as its acronym suggests - the greatest of all time. I’m not even sure this is a label that we can apply to Jan, as good as he is/was. To me, if there’s someone else in the picture with a reasonable claim to the title (Mark Allan and Dave Scott would qualify), then there really isn’t a GOAT. Neither Jan nor Blu (yet) are in the same league as other Goats: Brady, Merckx, Ali, Ruth, etc.
I think he probably just had the best 24 months of any triathlete, ever.
But what separates those in the “greatest” discussion in any sport from the rest of the other stars is the longevity of their great performances and success.
So as others have already said, let’s see how he carries on in the years to come.
Does Jan take a back seat? Is this the start of a new GOAT? Is he the new GOAT?
From Breakfast with Bob. Let it sink in. “So when I look at everything you’ve accomplished - what you have done in the last year and a half is basically someone’s career. Gold medal, 70.3 Worlds, Ironman Worlds, Sub 7 hours, Canadian Open…”
I never thought Jan was the GOAT but if he was, KB has past whatever that level was IMO. Jan was the standard in long course for several seasons but he didn’t take it by storm like KB out of the blocks and his Olympic Gold was somewhat of a surprise. His ITU career was good but not anywhere close to the likes of a Gomez or Alistair. I digress…
Generally speaking across sports I think all this GOAT stuff is an ever changing climate that amounts to almost nothing.
The sport is ever evolving and getting faster… KB is an easy favorite in long course racing for sure right now.
Who has that many top level wins in under 2 years? //
If we are using this as some sort of metric, then yes, Mark Allen went undefeated for almost 2 years at one point in his career, 11 wins as I recall. World champs, Nice, Kona, I think Zofign, and a few other top races.
Waaaaay too early to be talking GOAT, he first has to be the best in his own country…I think that is debatable at the moment, head to head I think Iden is right there with him. And when they are both healthy, Iden wins just about every time, except in ITU…And there is that pesky Kona thing too…
Who has that many top level wins in under 2 years? //
If we are using this as some sort of metric, then yes, Mark Allen went undefeated for almost 2 years at one point in his career, 11 wins as I recall. World champs, Nice, Kona, I think Zofign, and a few other top races.
Waaaaay too early to be talking GOAT, he first has to be the best in his own country…I think that is debatable at the moment, head to head I think Iden is right there with him. And when they are both healthy, Iden wins just about every time, except in ITU…And there is that pesky Kona thing too…
Iden wins just about every time? That just isn’t even factual.
Ok so let us pose these questions for all to answer:
Best short course guy:
Last 10 years: ?
This year: ?
Best middle distance (70.3)
Last 10 years: ?
This year: ?
Best long course (full iron)
Last 10 years: ?
This year: ?
Best All Arounder
Last 10 years: ?
This year: ?
He is off to a good start but here are some humans with more ironman 70.3 and ironman world champs kona.
Craig alexander, sebi, Jan, gustav. (just kona, peter, dave, mark)
He has yet to pass those 4.
Is he the best short course ever. no, ali, simon, etc
So he is no mans land in each categorie short course vs long course. ( too early)
BUT GOAT being the wrong word as time is not up, but rather best we have seen.
YES he is doing it all and even on his worst race all year was 3 rd place at kona.
Does Jan take a back seat? Is this the start of a new GOAT? Is he the new GOAT?
From Breakfast with Bob. Let it sink in. “So when I look at everything you’ve accomplished - what you have done in the last year and a half is basically someone’s career. Gold medal, 70.3 Worlds, Ironman Worlds, Sub 7 hours, Canadian Open…”
I never thought Jan was the GOAT but if he was, KB has past whatever that level was IMO. Jan was the standard in long course for several seasons but he didn’t take it by storm like KB out of the blocks and his Olympic Gold was somewhat of a surprise. His ITU career was good but not anywhere close to the likes of a Gomez or Alistair. I digress…
Generally speaking across sports I think all this GOAT stuff is an ever changing climate that amounts to almost nothing.
The sport is ever evolving and getting faster… KB is an easy favorite in long course racing for sure right now.
I’m not sure there has been an outstanding claim for a modern day Male or Female GOAT up until this point. I say modern day as I just don’t think you can compare the depth today vs the depth of 30-40 years ago.
Jan is always touted as the modern day male GOAT but his ITU career isn’t even in the top 3 and if we are taking into account consistency in short course then for me that claim is problematic. But he was up until recently the only male or female with the two biggest prizes in short and long course.
What KB has is a much more consistent and well rounded short course career. In a couple of years he could match Jan’s LC championship record. At that point there is no comparison and finally we would have a GOAT who’s claim can’t really be disputed. On the female side short and long course are still very different disciplines but that may change in the coming years.
However up until then it’s all a bit House of the Dragon. There are no definitive claims for GOATs on either side and it will be all compartmentalised (retro vs modern, short vs long etc).
Also I’d rather be KB just now than GI, even with the Kona win. KBs record is just so much more complete. The more GI races LC I think you will see more days like yesterday, based on his ITU career. When there are off days they are really off.
Who has that many top level wins in under 2 years? //
If we are using this as some sort of metric, then yes, Mark Allen went undefeated for almost 2 years at one point in his career, 11 wins as I recall. World champs, Nice, Kona, I think Zofign, and a few other top races.
Waaaaay too early to be talking GOAT, he first has to be the best in his own country…I think that is debatable at the moment, head to head I think Iden is right there with him. And when they are both healthy, Iden wins just about every time, except in ITU…And there is that pesky Kona thing too…
Iden wins just about every time? That just isn’t even factual.
For long-course Iden has won every head to head matchup, except for last weekend at St. George. The lucky hat is 9 for 10.
(the key here is “except in ITU”)
Does Jan take a back seat? Is this the start of a new GOAT? Is he the new GOAT?
From Breakfast with Bob. Let it sink in. “So when I look at everything you’ve accomplished - what you have done in the last year and a half is basically someone’s career. Gold medal, 70.3 Worlds, Ironman Worlds, Sub 7 hours, Canadian Open…”
I never thought Jan was the GOAT but if he was, KB has past whatever that level was IMO. Jan was the standard in long course for several seasons but he didn’t take it by storm like KB out of the blocks and his Olympic Gold was somewhat of a surprise. His ITU career was good but not anywhere close to the likes of a Gomez or Alistair. I digress…
Generally speaking across sports I think all this GOAT stuff is an ever changing climate that amounts to almost nothing.
The sport is ever evolving and getting faster… KB is an easy favorite in long course racing for sure right now.
I’m not sure there has been an outstanding claim for a modern day Male or Female GOAT up until this point. I say modern day as I just don’t think you can compare the depth today vs the depth of 30-40 years ago.
Jan is always touted as the modern day male GOAT but his ITU career isn’t even in the top 3 and if we are taking into account consistency in short course then for me that claim is problematic. But he was up until recently the only male or female with the two biggest prizes in short and long course.
What KB has is a much more consistent and well rounded short course career. In a couple of years he could match Jan’s LC championship record. At that point there is no comparison and finally we would have a GOAT who’s claim can’t really be disputed. On the female side short and long course are still very different disciplines but that may change in the coming years.
However up until then it’s all a bit House of the Dragon. There are no definitive claims for GOATs on either side and it will be all compartmentalised (retro vs modern, short vs long etc).
Also I’d rather be KB just now than GI, even with the Kona win. KBs record is just so much more complete. The more GI races LC I think you will see more days like yesterday, based on his ITU career. When there are off days they are really off.
Maybe slightly off OP topic…but here we are.
In reply to your sentence in bold…not sure how anyone could not consider Chrissie Wellington. Did she not win every damn IM 140.6 she entered? 13-0. If that does not merit an outstanding claim for GOAT consideration…the bar is just too high…IMO
Also I’d rather be KB just now than GI, even with the Kona win. KBs record is just so much more complete. The more GI races LC I think you will see more days like yesterday, based on his ITU career. When there are off days they are really off.
Even going forward, KB’s goals seem much more aligned with his capabilities. From the Breakfast with Bob interviews, it sounds like Blu is a definite for Kona next year, whereas Iden seems like he’s all in for the ITU path to Paris (other than a few PTO high payout races). Even if they both go for ITU, Blu’s track record is more established and so IMO likely has a higher chance of a gold in Paris.
Iden’s path, by contrast, seems riskier - give up on two years of long course (where he’d be the favourite for just about every race) to try for Paris, without much in the way of definite outcomes.
He’s a new breed.
I do not like the term GOAT because it is always be controversial. We can find a good bunch of guys and girls whom I could assume are amongst:
Dave Scott, Mark Allen, Frodeno, Gomez and Alistair Brownlee. For me they are the GOAT till now and Blummenfelt is not that far
Scott: 6x IM worlds (but no ITU success because it did not exist)
Allen: 6 xIM worlds and 1 ITU worlds (no olympic medals because triathlon was not olympic then)
Frodeno: 1x olympic gold, 3x IM worlds, 2x 70.3 worlds
Gomez: 5x ITU worlds, 2x70.3 worlds, 1xolympic silver
Brownlee: 2 xITU worlds, 2x olympic golds
Blummenfelt: 1xolympic gold, 1x ITU worlds, 1x IM worlds, 1x 70.3 worlds
A fast analysis
Best IM triathlete: Scott or Allen
Best ITU triathlete: Gomez
Best triathlete in short distance at his best: Brownlee
Most complete: Probably Blummenfelt
But still people thinks Frodeno is the GOAT (thinking mostly that because of his success in IM)
we cannot compare apples to oranges. Back in the 80s there were not ITU worlds, no 70.3 worlds, no olympics. In the 90s there were not 70.3 worlds neither olympics (80s and 90s with no drafting). We also know the competition back then was smaller than now. I am spanish and when people talk about the GOAT in soccer do not think about one but 4 or 5 (Di Stefano, Pelé, Cruyff, Maradona and now Messi).
What I have learnt in 20 years watching triathlon (mainly ITU till 6-7 years ago) and old videos is that there is no GOAT, but the most dominant guy what I have seen in a race is Alistair Brownlee. Then I would say that Allen is for sure the legend, Gomez the most consistent guy I have ever seen, Frodeno the guy who changed IM and the first super pro in long distance and Blu, … let´s give him some time to show where he has to be placed.
I do not want to disrepect Frodo, and yes, he won the olympics, but he did not succeed in ITU at all compared to Gomez, Lessing, Brownlee or even Mola. Hamish Carter won the olympics, was an exceptional athlete but he was no dominant as the Brownlees, Lessing or Gomez in short distance, so for me Frodo is not even in my top 5 in ITU (Lessing, Robertson, Gomez, A.Brownlee, Mola, Whitfield)
Ok so let us pose these questions for all to answer:
Best short course guy:
Last 10 years: ? GOMEZ/BROWNLEE
This year: ? WILDE/YEE
Best middle distance (70.3)
Last 10 years: ? GOMEZ/FRODENO/IDEN
This year: ? BLUMMENFELT
Best long course (full iron)
Last 10 years: ? FRODENO
This year: ? IDEN
Best All Arounder
Last 10 years: ? NONE
This year: ?BLUMMENFELT