I started tri’s three years ago. The swim has been my weakest part since. I’ve always been a pretty decent breaststroke swimmer but was completely new to front crawl. I took some swimming-courses and slowly began to make both distance and speed. Now, three years later, I feel comfortable in the water. I am able to swim 2 mile without any big problems, however, I am slow. Speed gains over the years are marginal. I tried another course, had a swimanalysis, am trying a lot of different techniques and am training a lot but I am still below mediocre in the amateurfield. I swim about 3 KMPH average on a 500 meter and 2.7 KMPH average on 3KM. I am swimming 50 / 50 with and without wetsuit.
I am swimming in a entry-level wetsuit (Dare2tri Mach2SCS a Dutch triathlon brand). It has 5mm panels on legs and chest. I am now looking for a step up. After a lot of reading I am thinking of buying a Blueseventy Reaction. It’s a mid-range wetsuit with also 5mm panels and had very positive reviews.
I have a few questions:
On paper the Blueseventy suit is “better”. But will a better suit help a below mediocre swimmer? I think I am especially looking to position and buoyancy. At this moment I am hardly faster with a wetsuit than without.Since I noticed a few Blueseventy threads on this forum, perhaps anyone knows. I am 180cm / 5’11" about 85KG / 186 pounds. My chest is about 43 inch. My shoulders are broader than average. For M I am afraid I might be to heavy (it’s upto 187pounds), but does match my lenght best. The next step up is an ML but I am a little too short for that. Does anyone know I should go a size up or not? Blueseventy says that a part of the legs can be cut off to match size. But I am a little afraid it’s too loose. I can’t use water leaking in.I have video’s of my swimanalysis. Does it make any sense to post them so perhaps the new suit would match my (lack off) style?
Thanks in advance and my appologies for my bad English.
The short answer is YES. Just like aero helps the slow biker more, a better wetsuit helps the slower swimmer more.
It is not only about position and flotation. A better wetsuit is marginally better in these areas, but where you really gain is comfort, fit, and flexibility in the shoulders. The more flexible the suit is in the shoulders and arms the longer you can swim without tiring, If you are already a poor swimmer that is very important.
Expensive wetsuits are expensive because they use a lot of different shapes of rubber which are carefully glued together which is a time intensive process. The reason for doing this is it allows a wetsuit to be optimized in terms of flexibility and buoyancy for fast swimmers. BUT you have to make some specific assumptions about body type and swimming form when you do this optimization. HUUB was clear that their top-end was designed around a ‘pro’ body shape meaning lean and flexible. Athletes who are carrying a few extra pounds or need more buoyancy are better off in one of the lower end wetsuits because they don’t match the pattern the high end suits have been designed for. This isn’t clear if you look at sizing chart but when I had a chance to compare the different suits side-by-side it did become clear you had to be a good match to get the advantages of the more expensive wetsuit (and Dan hits on this point in his article as well) Having seen the Blueseventy Helix I would say it falls in the same boat but I’m not sure about the Reaction.
As for cutting the legs this is something I certainly do and I think its pretty common. A wetsuit is ‘wet’ suit so you won’t stay totally dry but unless you have ridiculously tiny ankles/calves you won’t get the kind of backflow you are envisioning. Personally I don’t think much could be worse than an overly tight wetsuit.
My experience. I am a horrible swimmer. I swim about 2:05/100 yards w/o a wetsuit. In the same conditions, I swim 1:48/100 yards in my Roka Maverick Pro.
Everytime I use the Roka, my time is 1:48/100 yards - whether it be a 2 mile swim or a sprint distance.
@AutomaticJack
My arms and shoulders never really get tired. Also my swimcoach told me my armstroke is very good (in comparison to the rest that is). That’s why I didn’t really think flexibility would be an issue. But I guess you’re right.
@Scott8888
Haven’t read that article yet, but I am going to do it now! But your comparison makes sense to me. About two years ago I bough a mid-range suit about $350. It was my first suit and in my opinion it was too tight. The seller said it wasn’t and the charts said so either. But swimming in it never felt good. I was a tad faster than without suit, but swimming also took me more energy than without wetsuit. I went back to the store and the seller advised a cheaper one (the Mach2 SCS I’ve been using for two years now). He said it would be less tight, because it wasn’t fully neoprene but had flexibel patches under the arms. Same brand, same size, but cheaper. When I tested it in open water, I inmidiatelly was 0.5kmpu faster than without and was less tired as well. Two years later now, I am slowly getting faster without suit, but I am stuck with suit. Actually, I am as fast without suit as I am with suit at the moment. I am less tired with suit though.
Boring story in short, I think I evolved from nothing to below mediocre and my suit perhaps needs to evolve as well. I am more trained as well and lost some fat (not weight) also.
@Spartan420
We’re about equall, I do 2:00 on 100 meters. It’s perhaps a tad faster, but not mutch. I am hardly faster with wetsuit and your difference is amazing. I had the same differnce with my current suit about two years ago. But I became slower with wetsuit and faster without. Currently I am as fast without as I am with. 1:48 / 100 yards on a 2 mile swim would be excellent for me. I am training my ass off for marginal gains.
@Jaretj
Arms above my head outside the water feels very restricted. In the water feels hardly restricted. My wetsuit might not be the most advanced one, but it has the flexible panels below the arms that imho help a lot. For some reason you’d only see them in entry-level wetsuits though I have this one: https://www.dare2tri.com/men-s-mach2scs-wetsuit
When I did my wetsuit testing it was pretty eye opening how frank the companies were with me regarding speed, construction etc. Almost unanimously all the brands I talked to said their 2nd line suit was the fastest suit they made.
When I was sponsored by a wetsuit company the brand manager said they were going to send me their fastest wetsuit. Imagine my horror when I opened the box and saw their 2nd line suit. Called the brand manager and he explained how and why it was faster
The top of the line suits often include all the bells & whistles some of which have been proven to slow a suit like catch panels. Unfortunately that’s a cost of entry into the top end, highest price point category.
Often times the 2nd most expensive suit it the company’s fastest suit. Typically has about 85% of all the gimmicks the top of the line suit has including most of the fit attributes.
Percentage wise, a well fit wetsuit will benefit a slow swimmer more than a faster swimmer. desert dude brought up some good points (I think I have read his research in a previous post as well):
The top of the line suits often include all the bells & whistles some of which have been proven to slow a suit like catch panels. Unfortunately that’s a cost of entry into the top end, highest price point category.
Often times the 2nd most expensive suit it the company’s fastest suit. Typically has about 85% of all the gimmicks the top of the line suit has including most of the fit attributes.
The 2nd line suits are usually quite expensive too, but a good suit will definately help your times in open water. Did you consider the De Soto T1? Don’t let the 2-piece design throw you off! I love my T1 (just replaced my Black Pearl with a First Wave) and the fact that it is 2-piece really lets you dial in the fit. Dan wrote about the T1 recently here. Best of all, they have a 100% satisfaction guarantee, so you can swim in it for 30 days to make sure you love it and have the right fit.
You should definitely look at the DeSoto T1. I posted this question about the suit here a while back. There was near-universal love for the suit from anyone that’s swam in one. Emilio personally reached out to me and we traded several e-mails where he answered all my questions on which model was the best for me, and siziing. I ended up going with the T1 Concept 5 suit, and absolutely love it. It’s far and away the most comfortable suit I’ve raced in.
The Reaction was my first suit when I started tri, and I’m 6’0 on the nose and was around 85kg at that time - I was in an ML and it fit me fine. I didn’t realise just how much difference a better suit made however, until I got my Orca Predator. I could not believe the difference. It made wearing the Reaction feel like I was wrapped in a wet carpet.
The best suit is the one that fits the best. Fit being equal the best suit is the one with the most rubber.
I disagree. I have two wetsuits. Sailfish Attack and Blueseventy Helix. The Attack has a better fit, it feels more snug, no constriction (if that is the right expression), just like a second skin. But I swim faster in the Helix, even though it just does not feel completely right when I take it on…
When I did my wetsuit testing it was pretty eye opening how frank the companies were with me regarding speed, construction etc. Almost unanimously all the brands I talked to said their 2nd line suit was the fastest suit they made.
When I was sponsored by a wetsuit company the brand manager said they were going to send me their fastest wetsuit. Imagine my horror when I opened the box and saw their 2nd line suit. Called the brand manager and he explained how and why it was faster
The top of the line suits often include all the bells & whistles some of which have been proven to slow a suit like catch panels. Unfortunately that’s a cost of entry into the top end, highest price point category.
Often times the 2nd most expensive suit it the company’s fastest suit. Typically has about 85% of all the gimmicks the top of the line suit has including most of the fit attributes.
This…
Ever wondered why Jonny Brownlee wears the Aerious? Ali wears the new albacore? Because I’ve watched them swim in the pool, next to each other.
Ali has a great kick and uses it to his advantage, Jonny has a terrible kick, so needs the bouyancy of the legs in the Aerious.
Which swimmer do you think you’re more like?
If you swim in a 4:4 Huub and have good balance and bouyancy then get a BS helix. If you don’t then a fusion is a better choice.
@toastygloveman@el gato
They indeed gets some good reviews, however I think I am going to go for another brand for two reasons; price, it’s a little above my budget (of what i want to spent, i just have a new second bike as well ;D) , and location. In the Netherlands I know my rights on warranty, plus it’s easy to return if the size is off. I could’t find the DeSoto here.
@hblake
If you’re asking me the question. I read both very positive and negative reviews. Read it’s great but not very durable.
@Mongooseman
I was in doubt between BlueSeventy and Orca to be honoust. I read the Reaction has been evolving a lot over the years. May I ask when you had this suit? Orca has been stable for ages.
@Desert Dude
I am going to read some reviews.
@TriByran
My leg-technique is bad. It takes me like a minute to move to the other side of the pool with just legs. I\ With a board in my hands, I won’t even go forward at all. I need to keep my head in the water, arms forward and otherwise I’d hardly move forward. My legs are strong though. Have been playing rugby, kickboxing, etc. I am a good TT-er. But in the swimming pool…
A friend of mine is swim-coach and he judged me (approx 1:50/100m) in different suits. Result: 2nd line was best… or at least there was no detectable benefit from the top-line suits.
But the final thing that really drove me of the top-line suits was that they often have gadgets like resistance-panel at the underarm, or very tight sleeves etc. I remember the 2XU one to have a resistance panel that was basically a piece of rubber that cost me two fingernails when trying to get out of the suit. The Orca Alpha (which I loved - but I am far to slow for this one) had a tight sleeve-“band” near the wrist, so you cannot shorten the arm if needed. A friend of mine has a suit where the zipper closes downward… might be fine, but she is unable to close the suit on her own.
I was also a bit surprised about my size. I am 187cm with 69kg, and was pretty sure I need one of those tall/slim sizes - but no, it is an ordinary 8 (Orca Sonar). Compared to friends it might be a little bit too wide, but I can easily get in and out and it is super comfy.
So what ever you do make sure you can get in and out without fuzz and that the suit allows you to cut the legs and arms.
