I have always found full wesuits to be constricting in arm movement and almost feels like it is tiring me more quickly. I am considering going to a sleeveless, from a Zoot Zenith, to gain that freedom of movement. Is a proper fitting fullsleeve wetsuit always going to be faster in the water or is it mainly the torso and legs that gain the benefit? Which is the best sleeveless wetsuit available?
Yes, if you get a fullsuit that fits properly, it will just about always be faster than a sleeveless. The only time I can see a sleeveless being faster is if you overheat in the full suit, causing you to slow down.
The more flotation the better. That why you see even the fishlike pros in fullsuits whenever they are allowed. Plus the fullsuits take on less water than the sleeveless ones.
The original fullsuits (like my QR from '91) did have serious flexibility issues, but new suits like the Zenith should be fine. You may want to check the fit and that the suit is fully pulled up. You should be able to lift your arm above your head without feeling like you’re using stretch cords. If you’re having recovery fatigue 1/2 way through the swim, the fit is off.
I have a DeSoto T1, and between the 2-piece design and 2mm top, it’s the most unrestrictive suit I’ve ever worn and provides the most natural stroke. Also heard good things about the B70 Helix.
Id have to disagree with the top swimmers wanting more buoyancy. If anything they want less so they can sit in the water better and get more propulsion with their kick.
The non-swimmers are usually so poor because they dont kick or have a bad kick. So greater buoyancy helps them as it lifts their hips and stops their legs dragging. Its the reason why McCormack tended to use the Apex2 over the 3.8.
As far as sleeveless over full suit, a full suit is faster any day of the week!
Here’s an article on a short study done to compare full vs. sleeveless vs. a fast skin.
They did try to do this in an objective manner…
Very interesting. Thanks. I was surprised that Curt had such a drop-off with the sleeveless as compared to Duane. A lot must depend on individual factors.
Very interesting. Thanks. I was surprised that Curt had such a drop-off with the sleeveless as compared to Duane. A lot must depend on individual factors.
Or the fact that Curt wore a two piece for his full suit, and merely removed the top for his “sleeveless”.
John
Which is the best sleeveless wetsuit available?
The one that fits you best.
I don’t want to single out the brand in question here other than to say, maybe that brand did not fit you the best, or perhaps you did not have the right size or maybe the suit was not fitted to you properly before using it. These are all key factors in getting a wetsuit to perform optimally.
I agree, fit is amazingly different amongst brands. I spent an afternoon trying on about a dozen suits, multiple brands, and sizes, before finally coming to the right fit. It helps that I’m close to a tri shop in Atlanta where I had the privilege to do so and their staff was amazingly helpful and patient.
“Id have to disagree with the top swimmers wanting more buoyancy.”
and you would be wrong.
“If anything they want less so they can sit in the water better and get more propulsion with their kick.”
good in theory, bad in practice. you get almost no propulsion from your kick, unless you’re simply doing a kick set in the pool. i sent my wetsuit up to the flume in colorado springs back in the 90s, and had national team swimmers testing them. one swimmer was better in a short-legged suit than in a long-legged suit, and was fastest yet in a suit with no legs. of course, all these swimmers were faster in suits with long arms.
in one swimmer out of perhaps 500, or in one elite swimmer out of perhaps 20, yes, what you say is true. but in this case, no legs are faster. my guess, and it’s just a guess, is that backstroke specialists – who do get a ton of propulsion from their kicks – and who employ a vigorous 6-beat kick when swimming freestyle, because they (inefficiently) swim freestyle like a backstroker flipped on his belly, are what make up this small subset of swimmers. again, tho, in this case, no legs at all are the best solution.
to the OP: yes, fullsuits are always faster, and if you want the fullsuit which offers you the most comfort (best neck, least restriction) then it’s a T1 2-piece suit you’re looking for. some swimmers find they’re marginally faster in a fullsuit other than a T1, tho i find that i’m faster in a T1 than in a 1pc. simply in terms of comfort and freedom of movement, however, nothing i’ve ever been in beats a T1.
Im just talking from personal experience. Its all very well saying that national team swimmers tested wetsuits but swimmers swim very different to most triathletes and in turn swimmers swim differently in a pool than they would open water or in a pack.
In that case why arent world cup swimmers wearing the 3.8 over the Alpha? Surely if they were after more buoyancy then you would think they would pick the wetsuit which supplied it?
I know of at least 6 world cup triathletes who cut the legs high on their suits so their legs sink better to give greater propulsion particularly at the start of a race. Im pretty sure if triathletes werent getting a whole lot of propulsion from their kick they would just leave their legs trailing at the start of a race! Guys like Potts hardly kick, same applies to the other great swimmers in WCs like Gomez and Vasilliev. Guys who dont come from that swimming background though kick far more, I would point to Gemmel, Clarke and even guys like Courtney Atkinson and Kahldfelt as examples.
Yes, if you get a fullsuit that fits properly, it will just about always be faster than a sleeveless. The only time I can see a sleeveless being faster is if you overheat in the full suit, causing you to slow down.
What would you recommend for St. Anthony’s? I believe the water temperature should be in the mid 70’s. Is there a potential for overheating with the full wetsuit?
Ahh, I see. it pays to read the article and not just look at the graph and pictures.
“Im just talking from personal experience.”
ah well, okay then. just know that you’re either an outlier, or you think you go faster with a certain style of suit when, in fact, a pool clock would tell you differently.
“Its all very well saying that national team swimmers tested wetsuits but swimmers swim very different to most triathletes and in turn swimmers swim differently in a pool than they would open water or in a pack”
right. national team swimmers are really the only groupset in which a few would benefit with no legs in their wetsuits. while 1 in 20 natl team swimmers might fit that profile, maybe 1 in 500 triathletes would.
“I know of at least 6 world cup triathletes who cut the legs high on their suits so their legs sink better to give greater propulsion particularly at the start of a race.”
in this case, they ought to cut higher up. like, at the bikini line. in my experience, they cut the leg higher up to get out of their suits in transition, not because they’re trying to swim faster. if they really are doing this to try to swim faster, most of them will in fact swim slower.
but i have you at a disadvantage, because i invented the triathlon wetsuit; built a triathlon wetsuit factory (which nobody currently making triathlon wetsuits worldwide has done, save perhaps aquaman); taught those in the factory how to make wetsuits; had that factory available to me, 30 feet from my office, for my own R&D; and was building better, faster, more comfortable suits in 1992 than half the wetsuit companies make today. i therefore have the benefit of reams of data, and this makes it unfair to even have this discussion. i apologize for that.
I didn’t quite follow where you were going on this one, but maybe you can answer my question.
Would you recommend a sleeveless or full seeve wetsuit for St. Anthony’s?
When I say I am talking from personal experience what I mean is I cut my legs high so my legs drop in the water which allows me to swim faster. I know a load of other guys that do the same. I dont think it makes me go faster, i know it does. If its a placebo effect then the placebo effect causes the lactic count in my blood to drop and I think thats more than simply my perception doing that. Maybe Im wrong.
I was aware you invented the tri wetsuit. I respect that and Im sure your knowledge on the subject is vastly greater than my own. Im just giving my opinion. But I also think Enzo Ferrari could have taught Henry Ford a fair bit about cars.
“Would you recommend a sleeveless or full seeve wetsuit for St. Anthony’s?”
i would recommend a full sleeve wetsuit for st anthony’s, st peter’s, st matthew’s, anthony’s fish grotto, anthony and cleopatra’s, and any other race for which triathlons are legal.
“But I also think Enzo Ferrari could have taught Henry Ford a fair bit about cars.”
well, enzo, maybe you’re right. but let me ask you this: if the best distance freestylers in the world (who do not have to ride and run afterward) are 2- and 4-beat kickers throughout most of an 800m or 1500m race, and only resort to 6-beat kicking for the final laps, which triathletes are these who must kick vigorously for their entire 1500m swim leg? if this was me, rather than cutting my wetsuit in order to favor my inefficient application of energy, i’d consider learning how to save my legs for the events where legs really do matter – something the best distance freestylers do even when the swim is their only event.
that said, if certain athletes nevertheless choose to swim this way, they should get those scissors out. they haven’t cut off enough rubber yet.
I dont think at any point I implied I was Enzo in that metaphor but I appreciate the compliment.
I never implied that triathletes must kick vigourously for the entire race. But certainly at the start of any triathlon they kick vigourously. I would think having a higher leg cut would help your kick by letting your legs sink a bit more in the water… I also think with the better swimmers that having a cut on the legs of the suit would not be detrimental to their performance when swimming with their 2 beat during the actual race.
All that being said there are definitely world cup racers who will use a 6 beat round the whole course, just not very many.
I dont think at any point I implied I was Enzo in that metaphor but I appreciate the compliment.
I never implied that triathletes must kick vigourously for the entire race. But certainly at the start of any triathlon they kick vigourously. I would think having a higher leg cut would help your kick by letting your legs sink a bit more in the water… I also think with the better swimmers that having a cut on the legs of the suit would not be detrimental to their performance when swimming with their 2 beat during the actual race.
All that being said there are definitely world cup racers who will use a 6 beat round the whole course, just not very many.
So… you want to cut your legs short for the 100-200 meters at the beginning of a race?
And, I’m curious how the cutting of the wetsuit aids in preventing lactate pooling, especially since you are evidently working the legs more than most.
John