I had a conversation last week with a former PRO triathlete, a current PRO, and a former PGA executive. The conversation came around to the amount of money being pocketed by the WTC, and the lack there of going to the athletes.
The Former PGA exec in part handled selling ad space so he can be considered knowledgable and credible with his opinion. This years Ironman coverage generated a 2.8 on the ratings scale (I’m not exactly sure what that stands for) but from his description, a 2.8 is a high number which would generate large ad Fees, (millions). I understand that the events does cost large amounts of $ to put on, but the basic gist of the coversation is that there is a lot of money in this sport on the IM side due to TV coverage, and the athletes that dedicate their lives to compete on a professional level are being left out in the cold and someone is making bookoo bucks.
The PRO and Former PRO for the most part agreed that the organizations basically take the attitude that they do not need to payout large purses because the willingness of the athletes to accept whatever they get.
The conversation concluded with the question of why is there not a pro-triathlete athlete organization or “union” of some sort to negotiate these kind of issues that could ensure better pay, pensions, benefits, etc…
You forget that all pros who qualify for Hawaii get free entry, travel and hotel. Oh, wait, sorry, that doesn’t happen. No, they lay out all sort of cash from their vast supply, knowing that if they finish as 11th best triathlete on the planet, they get exactly dick-diddly.
If most pros actually knew how much money WTC (and IMNA, for that matter) were raking in, there would be more outrage. For instance, the prize money for IM Canada hasn’t gone up in over a decade, while the field and entry fees have tripled. $25k for IMWis, 5 deep? That’s lousy money for a half, much less an MDot.
These guys are sorta like the old AT&T ad: “We don’t care, we don’t have to; we’re the phone company.”
However, since most pros tend to be both detail ignorant and very individualistic, the outlook for any union type action is not good.
We’ll continue to take the crumbs thrown in our direction. As one former big-time pro once observed, “Triathlon is like a box full of rats fighting over one Cheeto.”
And don’t buy into the argument that these races (and TV coverage) cost a lot to produce. They run way in the black, or they wouldn’t be doing it.
I don’t mind any event organizer making a profit, but there’s a point where it becomes gouging. In IM races, that point was passed years ago.
Just my jaded (and experienced) opinion, correct me if you can,
-bobo
Jack nice attitude, I like your outlook on life. But perhaps you should care because the pros are a portion of the food chain and without them we loose exposure through media coverage and I have a feeling that this would result in the loss of one or more venue and manufacturer.
Going back in history a few athlete reps tried this. There is a good account of the politics of it in Mike Plant’s book “Iron Will”. The version in the book is the “PG” rated version. Suffice it to say, it got pretty ugly back in the late '80’s.
The reason this will never happen (an “athlete’s union”) is becasue WTC are the “gatekeepers” and they have been excellent marketers. Ironman is sold to guys like you and me, average joes who aspire to something big. WTC doesn;t care as much about the Peter Reid’s and the Natascha Badmann’s as they do about the rank and file MOP’ers shelling out $375 for a spot and line up to do it at every sold out race, then dump anothe $300 in the merchandise tent and another $100-$1000+ on WTC licensed products throughout the year.
“Ironman” is the most successful sports license ever sold to manufacturers of everything from trash bags to watches to socks and SUV’s I am told, more so than NBA, NFL, NHL and, up til now, even NASCAR. Personally, I find that hard to believe, but that has been the claim by WTC in the past.
The entire current field of professional triathletes could boycott the WTC races and the affect would be minimal. The media engine in place would simply make new stars overnight. There are plenty of good athletes waiting to take those spots.
Like it or not, WTC holds all the cards due to very good marketing, good management and good timing.
“Ironman” is the most successful sports license ever sold to manufacturers of everything from trash bags to watches to socks and SUV’s I am told, more so than NBA, NFL, NHL and, up til now, even NASCAR. Personally, I find that hard to believe, but that has been the claim by WTC in the past. <<
I’d almost believe it. I had dinner last night with someone who has been around a long time and pretty much in the know. Just WTC’s deal with Timex gets them about $1.5 million per year ($1.00 for every watch sold).
If you are a fairly new Ironman (last couple of years), how much money did you drop at the “Official Merchandise Tent”? Just curious. I’ve seen how IM NZ has changed, just in the last three years. The first year I went, it was still the small (600 entrants), home-town race. The official finisher’s merchandise was (1) polo-type shirt and (2) women’s tee. No big official supplier. Then next year, 800 entrants, Nike was the supplier, lots more finishers (and other) merchandise, but the prices were 2-3x higher. Last year, 1,200 entrants and even more “corporateness”.
Wonder when they will start suing the tatt parlors for the m dot you see all these people sporting. By the way, Cathy, I gave up my chance to meet you as I let my Alcatraz lottery spot go, yesterday. Start adding up the cost and I couldn’t justify the $3,000 to $4,000 to do a race. I would have had to buy a new bike as I am not a very good technical bike rider and all I have is a Cervelo P2K. The swim didn’t scare me, the bike and the money did.
I’m amazed how you extrapolated my life’s attitude out of one sentence. I learned something along time ago, as a former wrestler. Only people involved in wrestling care about wrestling. The same, I think, is true about triathlon. The mass public will watch it once a year ,IM Hawaii or the olympics, but other than that they don’t care. It does not make it bad, it is just how it is. People would rather watch the world log cutting games on ESPN than a triathlon. Sad but true!
Now, I trying to figure out why I care what piece of my entry fee goes to the pro’s. If the pro’s get more and the WTA wants to get the same (why would they settle for less), who pays more? Me, to enter IMPL or to buy a shirt or watch.
What am I missing? (besides a good attitude in HID’s opinion(He maybe right))
Look at the history of EVERY other sport out there … baseball, football, etc. The owners owned your rights, paid you what they wanted, and if you dind’t like it, you could go farm, go work in a factory, etc.
Baseball players decided to form a union and the owners could accept the union or find new players … players with much less talent. Granted it takes a few years to build the quality of players that the owners canot do without. 25 years of Ironman is enough. No one wants to pay to watch Jim Smingle after they’ve seen Ted Williams.
The athletes could form a union, and threaten to sit out if it’s not accepted. The corporate sponsors would likely take notice. Anybody wanna sponsor some AG raking in a 12-hour IM? No.
It could be done. Someone just needs to get pissed off enough to get it started.
Not a big fan of unions. Strong players unions have Boston and New York with all the best baseball players and hockey may not have a season next year.
An alternative to unions would be a competing tri franchise. Maybe I’ll start one when I win the big jackpot tomorrow. Being president of a tri corp is the only way I’ll ever make tri headlines, anyway.
There has got to be a way that I can go out and swim, bike and run without paying big bucks. Oh wait, there already is a way.
Wonder when they will start suing the tatt parlors for the m dot you see all these people sporting.<<
No, this was discussed. Because you (the athlete) is paying for the services of the tattoo artist, then they are cool with it. You aren’t paying for the M-dot itself. If the tattoo artist started charging an ‘extra M-dot’ price, then they might not be so cool with it. Also, my friend had an M-dot earring on. His friend (also a triathlete) who makes jewelry, made 4 of the earrings, but before doing so, she got a letter from WTC saying it was OK for her to do so, as long as they were for personal/gift use and not to be re-sold.
And I’m sorry you won’t be coming out here, but I hear you about the cost. Another race, another day, I’m sure we’ll meet.
Didn’t WTC up the purse at Kona a couple of years ago?
I just looked in the 2003 program and the winner (both men and women) received $100,000, second $30,000 down to 10th $5,000 for a total of $430,000.
This is easy to say in our modern day where we are acclimated to fantastic working conditions. Go back 70+ years and see how working conditions were, and it’s suddenly apparent how vital union sare to working folks.
Where unions get into trouble (IMO) is when they start fighting for “everything they can possibly get”, rather than what’s fair for workplace/workers (such as baseball) . The NFL seems to have done a better job, although the players might say the owners have too much power, but there seems to be a good balance between owners and players and money. MLB and the NHL are unioning themselves right out of popularity and leading to a decline in the sport. There must be balance.
The Triathletes need a union. They need to make a salary if you want them to be pros. Relying on corporate sponsorship to pay their way, while others make lots of money off the efforts of the triathletes is just plain wrong.
If the WTC raises the price of admission so they can turn the same profit (as tobacco companies do), then they will likely find that the AG everyday triathlete finds a new hobby, or signs up for non-sanctioned races. I don’t see many AG racers all that concerned with world ranking, etc anyway.
IMO, Ironman is to the point to where it’s a serious enough, profitable business that a union could be formed. The athletes rae well-known enough that an lona race without Reid and DeBoom is not a Kona race. Allen and Scott are well known enough that their opinion can influence public opinion.
Coming up with a “USFL” for triathletes wouldn’t be all that hard … all you’d have to do is offer “something”. Secure the funding (sponorship) ahead of time and don’t ovespend, and it could be done.
Edit: lack of a cap keeps the Yankees supplied in all-Stars. The union would be who helps decide the basement and cieling for team spending.
Not sure if an athlete’s union/association would be the way to go. Others below have tried to compare to the NHLPA etc . , but in triathlon we are not even close in $$$. The total pool of money is still very small.
If I was a top athlete right now - someone who is able to finish in the top 10 of most IM races world wide and perhaps top 5-20 in Hawaii( Gordo are you here/there?) is campaign for 1) More money in the smaller IM races and 2) a more equitable distribution of that money in All the races. As it is now, it’s really only the VERY top people who are making decent money. In fact, I would not be surprised if finishers in 5th - 10th at IMH were only able to cover expenses for that race and for their whole year.
How to do this? Lobby the WTC( Lew Friedland) directly in a PROFFESIONAL manner. Lobby with the individual Race Directors(Graham Fraser et al) of IM races. Lobby key current sponsors( Timex, Gatorade, Janus et al) and network and help out promoting the sport with potential sponsors( Ford, whoever!). I say this, but I doubt other than a handful( if that) of athletes will actually do this. Many feel there job is training and racing and that’s it. Few will pick up the phone to do the above. If I was a professional triathlete I would be devoting 1 -5 hours of my day to this type of business and networking contact work. Notice my emphasis on Professional - this is key. It’s not about demanding this that and the next thing from sponsors and RD’s it’s about building long term mutually reciprical relationships that work with as many people in and outside the sport. In reality it’s business - 101!
Several good points there. One main stumbling block is the international aspect of the sport, and who exactly is going to do all the lobbying, and who exactly is going to benefit. Do I do the heavy lifting so the Euro’s get a pay increase? I’m not that benevolent. Nobody else seems to be either, so there’s the rub.
One thing I can assure you of is that Uncle Lew and Cousin Graham don’t really give a ripped-up ratsass about what the pros think or want. Their races fill, their sponsors kick up plenty of dough, and their BMWs are paid for.
b
The main gist of the conversation we had was that with a TV rating of 2.8,(would love to have a good explanation) millions are being spent by manufactureres to have their product shown during these time slots.
If the leaders of the true Professionals were to stand up and say enough is enough and not race until things were more fairly distributed I am guessing the WTC may consider making changes. My guess is that with larger purses, the professional field would deepen simply by the true professionals actually making a living wage and not worrying about how they were going to support a family and or retire.
The PGA was much like triathlon in its younger days, it was not until a player association was formed did the advertising money get redistributed to the player. Today the player association and the Tour have a very healthy relationship with all players making good money.
In my opinion, things will have to change, it may not be nessecary to throw out the old guard or have coup de ta but I believe dialoge needs to begin inorder to take our sport to the next level.
Bob - I’m curious about the bike…what would you buy in a bike for the Alcatraz race? I was planning to use the one I already have…of course, I’m going for survival, not to place or anything. Am I missing something?? Thanks–sheri
Tom here. Although you may not have asked I used a Colnago Dream Plus road bike with the seat 5 mm farther forward than my normal road position, a pair of shorty aerobars, Zipp 303s (I think?) and an 11-23 cogset. I wish I had a 25 on that cogset.
the problem is lets say you get the top 10-15 IM men & women in the world to take a stand and not race Hawaii. Guess what? Some guy who is working 25 hrs a week, training 25hrs a week and barely scraping by is going to see this as an oppurtunity to make a few extra bucks. To do this it has to be athlete and federation driven. USAT, Tri-Can, DTU, etc have to step up and say to the wtc cover part or all of travel, hotels or entry fees or increase and deepen the prize purse. Otherwise you can not have a sanctioned event in this country.
If you start a NASCAR race or make the cut in the PGA you get a paycheck. It may not cover all your expenses but you aren’t shelling out $2k w/no return on investment.
The WTC might have to drive a 5 series instead of a 7 series bmw for a few years but with a more competitive field you get more mainstream growth and more exposure and sponsors, both which bring in more dollars long term.
I have read on this forum, have been told by people who have done the race and watched people riding on television and the bike of choice is a road bike with shorty bars because of the technical nature of the course. If you watch yourself, you should be fine on a tri bike with the only prblem being quick shifts.