This is my first post on the forums. I’m looking for some input from a wide range of endurance athletes.
I spent most of my free time during 2017 training for my first half IM (St. Croix) and first full IM (Florida). At 27 years old, this was my first year of full time training since swimming in high school at 18. I completed Ironman Florida a month ago and I want to run/shuffle a 100 mile race before starting another Ironman training bout. Since IMFL I’ve been working out lightly about 4-5 times a week S/B/R and I feel like I’ve recovered well.
Right now I’m looking at the Badger Mountain Challenge on March 30th or the Lumberjack 100 on April 14th which only leaves me 15.5 or 17.5 weeks of training. This is about 8-10 weeks shorter than most ultra training plans. I’m interested in reading some opinions about this pursuit.
How well should I expect my Ironman training base to hold over into this new training?
Does anyone have advice on ramping up from light IM recovery to 50-70 mile weeks without injury?
Has anyone done this transition? - How much time did you give yourself from IM to ultra?
Is this training plan just foolish / should I push the race out until May / June to ramp up more slowly?
If good/proper advise is what you are after, you’ll probably need to offer some additional information. How about these to start:
IMFL split times
training load leading into IMFL (running mpw)
injury prone?
A few years ago, my training partner ran IMNZ a few months before we did Comrades. She eased back into running by increasing her mileage gradually, and kept cycling on her schedule until her running was over 40-50 miles per week. Then she focused more on running to get the time on her feet before our taper.
Recovery from an Ironman sneaks up on you, and training for a 100 miler is a different beast. I’m sure most coaches would tell you to do a 50 miler in March/April, or a 100k, and then report back before you tackle the 100 miler.
With a solid focus on strength training and understanding of nutrition for a 100, I’m sure you will finish. But an injury in Feb could derail your entire 2018, and the recovery from a 100 in March could derail your 2018 IM plans. Keep track of how you feel, if you need rest, and don’t lie to yourself.
Please keep the forum updated, and let us know in Mar/April what happens.
Don’t do a 100 miler without running at least one 50 first. You are bound to screw it up. And unlike IM, if your race goes to crap half way through you can’t just plod out the remaining miles.
How much running were you doing for IM? Weekly mileage? Obviously significantly less than 50 from your post. How many 20 mile runs? Back-to-back running days? Have you run any marathons? If so, what time. IM run time? Did you run even splits?
50-70 miles/week is on the light side for a 100 miler, even for an experienced runner.
There’s a reason why even minimal training programs are longer than what you’re looking at.
Ultra running rewards patience and consistency, two qualities which can’t be fast tracked.
A few years ago, my training partner ran IMNZ a few months before we did Comrades. She eased back into running by increasing her mileage gradually, and kept cycling on her schedule until her running was over 40-50 miles per week. Then she focused more on running to get the time on her feet before our taper.
The jump from finishing IM to finishing Comrades is not too big, particularly if you’ve been laying down solid runs in IM for a few years. A 100 mile is another beast altogether.
I followed the competitive training module in the Be Iron Fit book by the Finks. This was all time based training. I had never biked prior to 2017, so that was the hardest part of the training. During my peak weeks I put in about 30-35 miles of running.
I ramped up my training slowly and avoided injuries. Most of my injuries growing up were caused from swimming and skydiving - all in my shoulders. My lower half - knees, ankles, hips have been pretty resilient - no injuries so far.
Thank you for the reply. This (and the post above about injuries) is kind of what I was expecting to hear. I suppose I want to “rush” because a 100 mile race is a goal I want to tackle, but I also feel a strong pull to sharpen up my Ironman time. I know I can’t do both well at the same time.
During my IM training I only did two plus 20 mile runs. I never really did back to back runs, but my Saturday/Sunday got up to a 6 hour bike-1 hour run followed by a 3 hour run the next morning. My weekly mileage peaked at 30-35 miles though - so for a significant part of my training I was well under that.
My IM run felt great except for major stomach issues through mile 13-17. I felt really strong at the finish - dropping from 10 minute miles to 8:30 to 8 during the last 5 miles.
I have a friend that has done a few 50 milers that will join me on race day. I’ll talk to him about maybe doing a 50 a the end of March /April and then gearing into a 100 from there. I haven’t signed up for anything just yet. I’m feeling out /ramping up my training sessions now.
I followed the competitive training module in the Be Iron Fit book by the Finks. This was all time based training. I had never biked prior to 2017, so that was the hardest part of the training. During my peak weeks I put in about 30-35 miles of running.
I ramped up my training slowly and avoided injuries. Most of my injuries growing up were caused from swimming and skydiving - all in my shoulders. My lower half - knees, ankles, hips have been pretty resilient - no injuries so far.
Your young so I would either take a quick test of the ultra waters with a 50 miler which in March/April would be totally doable. I ran my first 50 off IM training with 3 months of training in between and even with a nasty ankle twist(buy trails shoes for any technical trail running) was able to feel so-so during it. I’ll tell you now there is NO WAY I would’ve been ready for 100 as my first dip into the ultra world. And that’s with 25+ years of running miles in my legs…
Of course everyone is different but the 100 will still be there all way through your 40s so as others have recommended go with a 50 then make a decision on if you go back to IMs for awhile or go full head into ultras for a bit.
Something else to consider is whether or not you really want to do the run training for a 100. Doing 20+ mile long runs week after week can become a drag, not to mention long run back-to-back days. You need these long runs to prepare your body and mind; the shorter runs are much less important in ultra training. In many ways the actual event can be less of a grind than the training. Be sure to practice hiking; there’s no way to avoid lots of that so best to be prepared.
One reason why people suggest 50 mile or 100k runs before a 100 mile is to practice nutrition and assess your mental state after a long day on your feet. When you hit 100k and still have 40 miles to go and you’re potentially running till dawn and you’re tired and hungry its easy to crack mentally without the prior experience of knowing how you’ll feel at 100k. One thing to remember is that when you get to 80 miles you’re almost certainly going to hurt and more than anything want to quit. Just keep moving forward.
I’d suggest waiting only because a 100 mile is such a mental exercise that it’s a good idea to really feel you’re ready both physically and mentally for what may be 24+ hours on your feet.
On the other hand, people have gone straight from a marathon to 100 miles and crushed it so only you know best how your body will react.
Is this training plan just foolish / should I push the race out until May / June to ramp up more slowly?
Considering you don’t appear to be (from the times posted) a strong runner or a high mileage runner, I would advise pushing the 100 miler to 2019. Spend 2018 trying a couple/few shorter ultras (50k/ 50 mile/100k).
Is this training plan just foolish / should I push the race out until May / June to ramp up more slowly?
Considering you don’t appear to be (from the times posted) a strong runner or a high mileage runner, I would advise pushing the 100 miler to 2019. Spend 2018 trying a couple/few shorter ultras (50k/ 50 mile/100k).
Nailed it.
I understand the OP getting excited about the thought of a 100 miler, I did my first when I was still 23, but he’s clearly a long way from being ready.
Thank you for the reply. This (and the post above about injuries) is kind of what I was expecting to hear. I suppose I want to “rush” because a 100 mile race is a goal I want to tackle, but I also feel a strong pull to sharpen up my Ironman time. ** I know I can’t do both well at the same time. **
During my IM training I only did two plus 20 mile runs. I never really did back to back runs, but my Saturday/Sunday got up to a 6 hour bike-1 hour run followed by a 3 hour run the next morning. My weekly mileage peaked at 30-35 miles though - so for a significant part of my training I was well under that.
My IM run felt great except for major** stomach issues through mile 13-17**. I felt really strong at the finish - dropping from 10 minute miles to 8:30 to 8 during the last 5 miles.
I have a friend that has done a few 50 milers that will join me on race day. I’ll talk to him about maybe doing a 50 a the end of March /April and then gearing into a 100 from there. I haven’t signed up for anything just yet. I’m feeling out /ramping up my training sessions now.
There are so many red flags there. Your IM marathon time is another.
Start thinking about it again when (if) you’re running at least a 20 miler every week, routinely running 60-80 miles /week, racing marathons is second nature, and you have some shorter ultras under your belt.
Only then are you at the point when it’s time to consider *starting *to train for a 100 mile.
. When you hit 100k and still have 40 miles to go and you’re potentially running till dawn and you’re tired and hungry its easy to crack mentally without the prior experience of knowing how you’ll feel at 100k. One thing to remember is that when you get to 80 miles you’re almost certainly going to hurt and more than anything want to quit.
Sorry, I doubt the OP would be likely to be finished by dawn in a 100 miler, even on an easy course.
. When you hit 100k and still have 40 miles to go and you’re potentially running till dawn and you’re tired and hungry its easy to crack mentally without the prior experience of knowing how you’ll feel at 100k. One thing to remember is that when you get to 80 miles you’re almost certainly going to hurt and more than anything want to quit.
Sorry, I doubt the OP would be likely to be finished by dawn in a 100 miler, even on an easy course.
Not in the next 12 months anyway.
Yeah, I would agree with you here. I was generalizing with my comment. I’m optimistic by nature so my thinking is usually “it could happen”
Right now I’m looking at the Badger Mountain Challenge on March 30th or the Lumberjack 100 on April 14th which only leaves me 15.5 or 17.5 weeks of training. This is about 8-10 weeks shorter than most ultra training plans. I’m interested in reading some opinions about this pursuit.
One thing that hasn’t been asked yet is: how much trail running experience do you have? It’s a different set of skills than road, especially climbing and descending.
I just looked at the events you mentioned. Badger Mtn has 14000’ of elevation gain and Lumberjack has 12000’. Factor in equal amounts of descent. These are very hard events. The climbs will exhaust you and the downhill pounding on your quads will seriously add up. I wouldn’t recommend either as a first 100 mile without a lot of prior ultra experience and months of dedicated training.
Sorry, but right now based on your background I think you’re looking at a probable DNF at either of these. Why not do a shorter distance to see if you actually like trail ultrarunning first? Maybe make the 100 mile a long range goal to keep you motivated for the next couple of years.
Start thinking about it again when (if) you’re running at least a 20 miler every week, routinely running 60-80 miles /week, racing marathons is second nature, and you have some shorter ultras under your belt.
This plus even more. I’m in the midst of training for a 50 miler in February and my weekends routinely consist of 24-26 miles on one day and 12-14 the next. By the time I get to 100’s, I’ll be looking at 30/20’s on some weekend. This weekend I’m doing a trail marathon on Saturday morning and when I finish I’ll be helping to crew for a friend doing the 100 mile. For recovery, there’s a good chance I’ll end up doing 10-15 miles of pacing during the later part of his race. It’ll still be the same day as he expects to finish in the 14-15 hour range. Yes, he’s fast, very fast. I might take Sunday off.
Start thinking about it again when (if) you’re running at least a 20 miler every week, routinely running 60-80 miles /week, racing marathons is second nature, and you have some shorter ultras under your belt.
Only then are you at the point when it’s time to consider *starting *to train for a 100 mile.
This is excellent advice for anyone considering 100k and above. I remember reading that part of training for a 100 miler is reaching the point mentally where you think of a marathon as “no big deal, just the weekly long run”.
I remember reading that part of training for a 100 miler is reaching the point mentally where you think of a marathon as “no big deal, just the weekly long run”.
Ha, I did one just a few weeks ago simply because my training plan said 26 miles. No way could I stop without going the extra .2 miles.
It seems like this shifted to serious running advice for finishing with a good finish time / somewhat “comfortably” (or in mid range agony). I was and still am planning on just getting to the finish before the cut off - even if it’s brutal, regardless of my time. That being said, I don’t want to DNF and I am pretty convinced now that I would DNF a 100 mile race with this short of a training period.
I think I’ll tackle a 50 miler in the time frame I outlined above as a good first step. I’ll plan to run the 50 mile version of either Badger Mountain or the Lumberjack. I figured with the absence of swimming and biking it would be fairly easy to up my miles into the 50-60 range per week. I’m going to do that over the next 6 weeks and see how my body handles the work load.
Thank you for the advice! I appreciate it. I’ll see where I’m at after the 50 mile race and determine how / when I can tackle a 100 mile.
