Ironman on race tires?

Triathlon Forum
1

Hi there –

Is there anyone out there doing middle and long course racing on full-on race tires (e.g., Grand Prix TT, P Zero Velo TT, etc.) with limited puncture resistance? If so, would you recommend it? My thought is switch to them race week to make sure I get a good mount, but do all training on my battle tested 4000s.

Seems like an easy way to pick up something like 3-4 watts. I’m just a MOP rider, but I’ll take 3-4 watts. I’ve never ridden race tires, so am not sure how bad the lack of puncture resistance is, and if there is trade-off in wet weather grip, etc. If handling/grip is even better, that would be a positive. Getting a flat mid-race is pretty psychologically damaging (using that last CO2 cartridge and hoping you don’t get another flat is a real nail biter), but most IMs I’ve done have very good road surfaces and the one time I flatted was a pinch flat.

Anyhow, opinions appreciated.

2

Tons and tons of threads on this but yes.

Either go with the 23mm Continental SuperSonic and 25mm GP TT, 23mm GP TT front and 25mm GP TT rear, 24mm Specialized Turbo Cottons, or the 23mm Vittoria Corsa Speeds. Use latex tubes with theses tires too.

3

Hi there –

Is there anyone out there doing middle and long course racing on full-on race tires (e.g., Grand Prix TT, P Zero Velo TT, etc.) with limited puncture resistance?

There are plenty of athletes with many many races on tires thinner than 4000s. The defacto at Kona last year really was the Grand Prix TT but I myself have always gone one step forward rocking Supersonics.

4

full-on race tires (e.g., Grand Prix TT, P Zero Velo TT, etc.) with limited puncture resistance?

Sorry but the GP TT is not a what you describe it is, it has very reasonable puncture resistance. Its pretty much the middle ground between normal high quality road tires like the GP 4000SII and the full on race tires without puncture resistance like Corsa Speed TLR.

But yes, go for race tires, if you want to perform well on your race, because all your competitors will. If you are an average “just want to finish” guy aiming for a 14h finish, dont bother with the potential stress a race tire could give you and take something with more puncture protection, the 2-4 mins you could lose will not matter to you.

5

But yes, go for race tires, if you want to perform well on your race, because all your competitors will. If you are an average “just want to finish” guy aiming for a 14h finish, dont bother with the potential stress a race tire could give you and take something with more puncture protection, the 2-4 mins you could lose will not matter to you.

Qualitatively, this was really what I was looking for – what are the marginal gains and are they worth it for a 12-hour “just want to finish” (but respectably fast) guy. So per your advice I guess where I’m leaning is:

  1. For the one IM I do every few years, run a “normal” tire. The race tires aren’t worth the risk of a DNF.
  2. For the few local Olympic races I do every year, where I have more of a “go big or go home” and willingness to DNF if I blow up, run the race tires?
6

i’d counter that logic with the fact that faster tires are going to save you more time over a longer distance, and if you do flat, the 5min to fix your flat will be a small factor (with added rest) in your long day.

7

Yes! Exactly. That is why I’m kind of kin a pickle! I mean, if the faster tires are a 3 watt improvement to my 150 avg watts, that’s 2%. So it either saves me 2% (of ~6 hour bike spit, so nearly 7 minutes) or just makes my long ass day in Whistler 2% easier.

Someone else suggested running latex tubes. I run Bora wheels, and Campy has strongly suggests against this.

8

Ignore Campy. Everyone who is fast uses latex tubes.

9

Hi there –

Is there anyone out there doing middle and long course racing on full-on race tires (e.g., Grand Prix TT, P Zero Velo TT, etc.) with limited puncture resistance? If so, would you recommend it? My thought is switch to them race week to make sure I get a good mount, but do all training on my battle tested 4000s.

Seems like an easy way to pick up something like 3-4 watts. I’m just a MOP rider, but I’ll take 3-4 watts. I’ve never ridden race tires, so am not sure how bad the lack of puncture resistance is, and if there is trade-off in wet weather grip, etc. If handling/grip is even better, that would be a positive. Getting a flat mid-race is pretty psychologically damaging (using that last CO2 cartridge and hoping you don’t get another flat is a real nail biter), but most IMs I’ve done have very good road surfaces and the one time I flatted was a pinch flat.

Anyhow, opinions appreciated.

Hi there, and welcome to ST. There are lots of personalities and yes, just about every question has been asked and answered and that’s ok (well, if we want the forum to continue with questions and traffic-ha! Don’t get upset about BryanD, he’s just seen it all…But the search function WILL yield more results)

My entire life centers around risk vs benefit and if you want the benefit of reasonably fast tires, with relatively lower risk of flat-go with Conti TT 4000SII. Pretty much the best of both worlds. I’ve used them in every race for my 7 yr career with no flats and only now that I’ve visited the podium a few times am I thinking about ‘rocking supersonics’ like Thomas G the pro.

They are pretty durable and reasonably fast. If you remain super worried about a flat, grab a small spare kit and throw it in your jersey in T1 or accept the small aero penalty for having it strapped onto your bike somewhere. It depends on how worried you really are about having to change a flat. Decide first if you want to finish the IM race or race the event? It always matter more if it’s your first IM, which doesn’t seem to be the case.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...d-prix-4000s-ii-2014

*edited to add:
in rainy weather, lower the tire pressure 5-10 psi to allow for better handling and less risk of crash

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Tyre_pressure_question_P6610411/?search_string=tires%20in%20the%20rain#p6610411

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Best_Tire_for_Racing_in_the_Rain_P5451419/

10
  1. For the one IM I do every few years, run a “normal” tire. The race tires aren’t worth the risk of a DNF.
  2. For the few local Olympic races I do every year, where I have more of a “go big or go home” and willingness to DNF if I blow up, run the race tires?

A valid approach, and one I have taken in the beginning. There are enough things in an IM to remember and to worry about, so it can give you a little peace of mind not worrying about flats. Once you are more seasoned and have enough routine, you might go for something faster with more risk, knowing that you could mentally deal with a flat if it happens. I did go for Conti GP 4000SII, the standard boring go to allround-tire, good rolling resistance, good puncture protection, good grip in corners, excellent aerodynamics. You will find tires that do some things better (except aerodynamics maybe), but this is the allrounder you don’t do anything wrong.

11

Long distance always on race tires (grand prix TT and vittoria corsa speed) with latex tubes. But the tires shoud be less than 200km

12

I have Super Sonic’s and 4000s and I make the decision based on the quality of the roads.

As a reference I have never flatted on the Super Sonics with ~500 race miles on them so its not as though they flat that easily. However many of the longer race here in the UK include some very rough side roads which seem to accumulate debris after it rains. I would be worried about slicing the Super Sonics under such conditions as the rubber is easily cut and very thin.

This leaves the choice of racing with a 4000s and minimal flat kit, the Super Sonics and more spares, or the Super Sonics a minimal flat kit and the possibility of being stranded at the side of the road. I haven’t done any wind tunnel testing but I imagine I am giving up a couple of watts when I have to start carrying more than 1 tube and CO2 because of how I store stuff. So if the course is rough I just run the 4000s and if its smooth I run the Super Sonics with a single tube and hope I make it through.

13

Yes, just make sure to put a good sealant in the tubes. Preferably closer to race day so it’s well topped off.

14

I myself have always gone one step forward rocking Supersonics.

Are you still a fan of the 20 in front, or the 23 now?

15

You aren’t going to be comfortable just putting on race tires, so here is my suggestion.

Go out and buy 3 GP TTs. Ride a pair around for 500-1000 miles in training so you feel comfortable using them. Put the 3rd one on the rear the week before your race.

I train on 4000s during the winter and switch to some nicer tires during the summer because I will do a bunch of local races and want a fast tire. I find the GP TT to be very much like the 4000s except they wear a bit faster.

16

I raced Ultraman on Supersonics
.

17

I raced Ultraman on Supersonics

You, sir, are truly a BAMF. Fistbumb

You aren’t going to be comfortable just putting on race tires, so here is my suggestion.

Go out and buy 3 GP TTs. Ride a pair around for 500-1000 miles in training so you feel comfortable using them. Put the 3rd one on the rear the week before your race.

I train on 4000s during the winter and switch to some nicer tires during the summer because I will do a bunch of local races and want a fast tire. I find the GP TT to be very much like the 4000s except they wear a bit faster.

I very much like this idea. Thanks. I currently ride Pirelli P Zero’s, so might try the P Zero TT, but yeah.

The other thing I was thinking about was getting a set of Tubular Bora 80s running Corsa Speed for races. But one of the things that’s struck me here is the advantage of easily being able to swap tires with clinchers – so you can still do some training rides on your race wheels without ruining a set of race tires.

Not to muddy the waters, but I would be interested in hearing people’s thoughts on tubular wheels for IM. What’s always held me back is concerns about changing tires having always viewed tubulars as something only suitable for pros followed by a support van and espresso slurping Rapha wearing snobs. It seems like clinchers (or perhaps the newer generation of tubeless wheels) is the better solution.

18

I don’t do IM’s, just Oly’s. But, I’ve been training on my Corsa Speeds since last year’s races. I’ve had one flat, when I ran over a 1/2" diameter bolt laying in the road which literally ruptured the latex tube, but no major damage to the tire casing. I put a new tube in, and have been riding latex+CorsaSpeed all spring. According to Garmin I’m up to 800 miles on the things. So, ZERO punctures in 800 miles of daily country roads.

FWIW, the main reason I didn’t switch back to training tires, is that I dreaded trying to get them off. I have separate front training/racing wheels…but, my rear wheel is just a covered training wheel (with PT hub).

19

I’d argue that it takes your average triathlete MUCH longer than 5 minutes to fix a flat in the middle of a race.

20

I raced Ultraman on Supersonics

You, sir, are truly a BAMF. Fistbumb

Not to muddy the waters, but I would be interested in hearing people’s thoughts on tubular wheels for IM. What’s always held me back is concerns about changing tires having always viewed tubulars as something only suitable for pros followed by a support van and espresso slurping Rapha wearing snobs. It seems like clinchers (or perhaps the newer generation of tubeless wheels) is the better solution.

The new tape you get is heaps better than the old tape, so no need to glue. You’ll get people telling you that their tyres popped off with tape, they either didn’t apply it properly or used shit tape or both. Not having to glue removes 90% of the hassle factor of owning tubs. Changing a tub is a piece of cake and can be done in under 30s. That does depend on the tyre though, some are a bitch to get on. They are certainly quicker than clinchers. I switched to tubs last year and almost went back to clinchers, I knew nothing about them and there was a bit of hassle to begin with. But now I’ve got it sussed, I wouldn’t go back to clinchers. I’m using Corsa Speeds. I got a flat the 2nd time I used them and tyre was a bin job with only 60km on the clock. That’s when I almost quit tubs. But I learned with the Corsa Speeds you have to have sealant. So they now have sealant in them and fingers crossed am yet to flat since which includes a 70.3 in stormy conditions with heaps of debris on the road. I’ll probably use them for IMWA at the end of the year. They are soft as shit and feel uber fragile, so I’m still a little concerned. But I can change a tub quick so it’s not so much of a problem.