I have my own feelings on the subject. But, I’ve never raced 112 miles and ran afterward. So…
Assuming you have a well-designed aluminum frame (2006 Cervelo Dual, in my case) that fits you well, would a well-designed carbon frame that offers the same good fit save anything (comfort-wise) over the IM distance?
NOTE: Assume that both bikes use the same wheels/tire/tubes/pressure, that both are equivalent aerodynamically, and that both weigh the same. I’m asking strictly about bodily wear and tear over the long distance due to frame material.
Has anyone actually gone from a Dual to something like a P2C/P3C and kept the same fit? If so, I’d be especially interested in hearing your opinions on the above.
I can only tell you that I have raced three Ironmans - two on an aluminum QR Kilo and one on a carbon fiber QR lucero lite. I noticed NO difference in comfort or speed. In fact, I did IMFL the last two years - once on the Kilo and once on the lucero lite. My finish times were within 40 seconds of each other. Means nothing. Your results may vary.
I raced on a Dual for about 4.5 years then got a P3 in June. I notice a lot more of a difference in vibration, etc with training wheels than race wheels.
The huge difference that I noticed is that I tend to be airborne a lot more on crappy roads with the Dual and the nether regions take more of a beating from that. Again, it’s the riding every day in training where that’s an issue rather than one race.
The P3 is also a much stiffer frame. It just DOESN’T flex. And noticeably lighter. That might be partly because I went from a 51 to a 48 (kept the same fit, just got a bike that accomodates it better!).
I LOVE the P3. It is a real joy to ride. That said, with a good setup, saddle that works for you, etc there is absolutely no reason that you can’t have a GREAT IM ride and run on a Dual.
The difference is quite subtle (in terms of comfort). For a frame, a carbon fork is 75% of the comfort advantage. I notice very little difference going from an Al bike to a CF one…far less than swapping out my spoked Ksyrum rear wheel for a H3 in the back (the H3 is noticably harsher over bumps).
The net net is the Al frame won’t hurt your marathon time.
I had a really good IM and the run of my life on an aluminum Giant TCR Aero. Perfectly comfortable. I rode 99.9% of the race in aerobars. Braking and sharp turns were the only exceptions.
Then I got a Kuota Kalibur. No difference comfort wise. Then I got a P3SL. Again, no difference that I can tell. Any of the three are perfectly comfortable for long rides/races.
I loved both my IM rides on my Cervelo P2K (alum) and my P2C, one thing i would not do for my next is ride a disc. That was more harsh then a set of zipp 404’s for my 6hr splitz.
Dude, you will be fine w/o carbon. I did my first IM(GFT) on a Columbus SL tubed Tommasini with Scott clip on bars and clincher training wheels. I even had fun! In fact, you may even enjoy the irony of passing people on $5K rigs on a steel or aluminum frame. I distinctly remember blowing by a few Kestrel KM40’s that day and getting the evil eye with my hairy legs and all.
You would never know it these days from all the marketing gimmicks, but there were some guys name Dave Scott, Mark Allen and Scott Tinely…they went really, really fast on steel and alum. To that end, look at the bike splits 20 years ago vs. today…ain’t a huge difference…but the bike price has gone up 5x.
Carbon fiber is neat, it’s sexy and yes it can save you a little time, but it’s not going to make or break your day.
Despite all the hype I don’t think any manufacturer has provided any scientific data regarding difference in the vibration/comfort differences between carbon and aluminum. I am willing to be that the comfort of a bike is grossly dependent on the tire type, tire pressure, seat padding, chamois and aero bar padding and not influenced much by frame material. It has also been said before that a well build aluminum bike far outclasses a poorly designed/manufactured carbon bike.
In your case i think a p3 would be a quantifiable upgrade in speed versus a dual. Comfort, unfortunately, is subjective and not quantifiable… but you might find you can get a better fit on one of the more aggressive aero frames.
No. It’s impossible to do an Ironman on anything but a carbon frame. Also, it must be a cervelo or you could die due to adverse yaw caused by the round tubes. The only way you can enter an IM with steel or alum is if you have an ST certified Flux Capacitor installed at a FIST fit with Retul while wearing your aero helmet and race kit. Then you still run the risk of being uncool. It’s very dangerous.
LVL on road bike, TH on Al Tri bike. I believe LVL’s bike MAY have been a Giant carbon bike. If the legend is true there were a crack in the BB shell on race week and they managed to fix it up with a makeshift layer of carbon. But I might be mixing that story with 1998 and the 1996 bike may very well have been Al. Can someone pipe in (Francois?).
IIRC, the relatively harsh ride quality of Al is more noticeable for those of us on the lighter end of the weight spectrum. My experience is an example - going from a stiff aluminum road frame (w/ alloy seatpost-carbon fork) to a titanium road frame (w/ carbon post-carbon fork) was very dramatic (I weighted 130 lbs at the time). Same saddle, same wheels/tires, but I went from getting thoroughly beat up by 40-mile rides to actually enjoying my century rides.
I ride an aluminum Cervelo P2K (now P1) and I love it. We have super rough roads here in New Zealand and while I’m no champion, the aluminum is more than adequate for the job. It is my strongly held opinion that tires and tire pressure make way more difference than you will ever be able to detect from changing from aluminum to carbon. I have a carbon road bike and I liked my previous steel one better with the same setup. I think the difference mainly came from an old school curved fork (carbon) on my steel bike, vs, the straight carbon fork on my new carbon bike, a lot more than any difference to do with frame material.
I have done a reasonable amount of testing to do with tires on my 650C aluminum Cervelo and I have found that even in the same width and same pressure, tires can make a huge difference in feel of the same bike. For comfort, particularly on our horrible roads here and especially over IM distances, I have found the Kenda Caliente (sp?) to be the best for comfort (comfort is my primary concern). While this tire doesn’t test particularly well in the lab, I find that due to its great comfort, that translates to faster overall bike splits for me at least.
Rather than worrying about frame material, look into finding the right tires for you. And as a bonus, changing tires is waaaay cheaper then changing frame materials. LOL