I just got back from IM Texas and IMWC STG and saw a lot of avoidable carnage imo. Ironman requires the signing if a Waiver, but I think more needs to be done.
These races have significant health and safety risks and I’m tired of seeing people go into them with a Hero Games mentality.
In Texas, I saw an overweight woman roll into the bike finish that had to be caught at the dismount line by multiple volunteers and lowered to her side still clipped into her pedals. It appeared to be a possible cardiac event potentially due to dehydration and heat stroke or exhaustion.
In STG, many racers decided to forego the practice swims because the water was cold. There was at least one case of hypothermia and pulmonary edema.
I believe IM has to do better. I think racers should be screened via BMI and obese and overweight should not be competing. As well, at least one practice swim should be mandatory below 65F.
If you get sick or injured IM deems you are not fit to race. What about protecting those that don’t show up prepared and in good health (fit) in terms of body composition and swim safety preparedness?
I am currently overweight (BMI and my own standards).
I could easily stay fat and get fit enough to complete an ironman. Pretty sure the race organizers don’t care if I finish in 9 hours or 16 hours, as long as they get paid.
Firstly the number of cardiac events in sporting events is tiny (to the point where it’s been hypothesised closing roads for marathons results in far more saved lives from potential road accidents than runners dying). Secondly, I’m not sure BMI is linked to sudden cardiac death during sport (but perhaps there is some evidence this is true?) - clearly some of the pros that have suffered cardiac issues have not been overweight.
But even if BMI is linked to increased risk, why draw the line there? It seems cardiac screening for all would be a better option. We know for young athletes the most common cause of sudden cardiac death in the United States are hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and coronary artery anomalies neither of which afaik is linked to obesity.
For sudden cardiac death in marathon runners nearly half have completed a previous marathon and the vast majority are male (by your logic maybe we could just ban men?! )
I’m not at all against some kind of prerequisites for competition. I just don’t think BMI alone is the solution to the problem. Completing a 70.3 in the last few years is imo a much better indicator the person knows what they are doing.
Wasn’t STG a “world championship” where participants had to qualify based on their abilities against others in their AG?
IM is open to anyone who wants to attempt it, 70.3 or 140.6. We have enough people trying to decide what’s “good” or “right” for someone else. IM doesn’t need obesity “police” to decide for someone else.
I don’t know if BMI is the right way to go about screening individuals, but there are other races (notably ultramarathons) which require the athlete to have completed some sort of similar competition.
e.g. UTMB requires a certain amount of other ultra-races before you can apply. Part of this is to create a more exclusive competition, but part of it is also because its 170kms through the mountains and you want your racers to at least have a certain familiarity with doing things like that.
If you’re going to put in some criteria, I’d suggest more along the lines of capability/experience rather than outright BMI:
For an IM: must have completed either a 70.3, marathon/ultramarathon, or Gran Fondo of 150kms (or whatever distance)For a 70.3: must have completed either an Olympic distance tri, half marathon, or Gran Fondo of 75kms (or whatever distance)
I’m sure I’m missing other types of criteria which could also fit, but even if you make it a “Please be advised that we highly recommend doing at least one of the following prior…” then at least you’re allowing for athletes which may not fit the BMI chart but would otherwise have enough experience
I just posted to the IM SG thread…as you were writing yours-I totally agree-
See below:
Hi…I thought I would chime in here-a little about me…
I am in the 40-44 W age group and qualified…I had no idea that this was “open to general athletes” first before they made it a WC. Call it Covid brain fog…but…anyway- I’m for everyone doing the race- AG or AWA or Qualified athletes. I am from, and live, in California and I’m able to swim outdoors (ocean as well) and ride my bike (and climb a shit-ton) where I live OUTSIDE and obviously run outdoors as well… I did about 4 century rides (“races”) this year already and probably swim 25K meters a week… running 30 miles a week but not long.
I also just did Ironman Texas (deferment from IM CA that got rained out) 2 weeks ago as well and did 11.5 hours…(16th full Ironman in 15 years of racing fulls…)
I did IM St George 10 years ago. Hard f’ing course. Harder than Nice for me- harder than Mont Tremblant. Harder than the hardest Cozumel day… I knew I was in for a treat AGAIN.
LOOK- THE RACE WAS FAIR. It was AS-ADVERTISED. Ironman Texas had a huge DNF rate as well- and yeah, it was hot and windy- but here are some thoughts I had as I was racing…
I work full-time, I’m married and I have a 6 year old. I have a coach, and I am a coach. I take my training very seriously and don’t cut corners- however, I’m not bummed if I miss one or two, I make it up. I feel like many people buy into the race because it’s “sexy” and it’s Ironman, but have no clue just how hard It is to make it through some of the courses.
You have to have an experienced coach to get you to have a race where you don’t want to kill yourself during or after or not DNF. Im sorry. - but online programs don’t always cut it. There are too many caveats for the normal working person trying to train for this volume- especially post-covid times. Many people are still “stressed” and might have a false sense of rested or recovered.
Too many people are overweight- and riding $10K bikes…thinking they are ready. Insane.
Nutrition during the race is hardly addressed in training and it is the 4th event- I’m sorry, but with temps and lack of humidity during the race this early on in the year (and so many people coming from cold weather places for this in May) … I remember asking someone “so how many mgs of sodium will you take in an hour on the bike? the run”- and the person was like “what?”
The amount of emergency personnel on the course that day was unreal. More than I’ve seen in Kona- more than in Nice. It was brutal. And- super fit people. Yeah- it was a brutal day. Glad I wasn’t one of them- I held back on the run a bit because I saw as soon as people stopped they would just collapse. Again- my 2nd slowest Ironman to date (13:30)- 2nd only to, you guessed it- IM SG the first time
In summary- loved the day. Loved the course. Harder than my last trip to Kona. Loved the energy- the volunteers, everything. I was there for the 70.3 Champs last year, will return in the fall. Stoked. Sorry if it wasn’t such a good race for you, but please- train smarter for your next Ironman if you can and invest in a coach if you’re going to spend $20K on a sport.
I believe IM has to do better. I think racers should be screened via BMI and obese and overweight should not be competing. As well, at least one practice swim should be mandatory below 65F.
I don’t know. As a former race director for small-time races, that sounds like an enormous bureaucratic hassle. And one that’ll need all kinds of waivers, like for the CrossFit pro whose BMI registers as obese but he’s just got massive gainz.
There are time cuts to pull people who are clearly just not making good forward progress. And people on paddleboards, etc. to monitor for people having trouble in the swim.
At some point adults are adults, and I’m not sure we should go to extreme lengths to protect people from themselves.
I agree, but there is no easy formula. I am overweight, according to BMI. But I am also a top 10 AG finisher and consistent 70.3 WC qualifier.
On the other hand, I would not mind seeing race cutoff moved up to something like 6:30 or 7:00 for a 70.3 and 13:00 to 14:00 for a 140.6, based on the course challenge. An 8:30 HIM cutoff makes it far too easy for someone only barely able to swim, slow pedal, and walk. That puts them at huge risk. If someone looks at a typical race and sees 6:30 as a cutoff, that would exclude a bunch of people who would struggle mightily on the bike and run.
Look at Gulf Coast 70.3, for example. That is a fast race. In 2021, it had 1,430 participants and 1,312 finishers. Of those, 878 (61%) finished by 6:30 and 1,083 (76%) finished by 7:00. A tighter cutoff would shrink the field (and the revenue) by at least 25%, but it would probably also make the race safer.
I fully agree with everything you mentioned. I think BMI is a good baseline indicator of general health. One poster mentioned a cardiac screening which I believe would be a part of the puzzle, but would be cumbersome and possibly costly.
People are so sold on the brand Ironman without realizing the means to the result.
Another poster mentioned it being the IMWC and people being fit. Not everyone qualified for this race.
BMI is a terrible measurement to use. It compares mass to height. Therefore you can end up with a very muscley fit athlete having a very high BMI yet their body fat percentage is very low.
BMI is a terrible measurement to use. It compares mass to height. Therefore you can end up with a very muscley fit athlete having a very high BMI yet their body fat percentage is very low.
I don’t think it’s terrible. It is proportionate. Mass has to be supported by organs and the more mass, the more strain, especially in extreme physical distress. I don’t know anyone that would be in the obese category that would be healthy but simply muscled out.
BMI is a terrible measurement to use. It compares mass to height. Therefore you can end up with a very muscley fit athlete having a very high BMI yet their body fat percentage is very low.
I don’t think it’s terrible. It is proportionate. Mass has to be supported by organs and the more mass, the more strain, especially in extreme physical distress. I don’t know anyone that would be in the obese category that would be healthy but simply muscled out.
I followed both of these events closely as I knew several people that did one or the other. I’ve never done IMTX but did finish the IMSTG 2012 full and WC 70.3. I know that course is no joke and I expected there to be carnage. Two that I followed there DNF’d. I’m sure those that I knew who signed up for IMTX were expecting a kinder, gentler race, and didn’t get it. I know at least one of them DNF’d that course and the rest had long posts about how hard it was. The trend lately seem to be that adverse weather events are impacting more and more races. IMO those that struggled and DNF’d were not overweight but undertrained for the conditions that were presented to them on race day. I think it’s naive to assume that you can grow this sport (full distance) with participants who have the time and resources to come prepared to battle all the adverse events that may be thrown at them on race day. Hard courses with the possibility of harsh conditions just don’t last (IMSTG). The numbers will not support them.
I fully agree with everything you mentioned. I think BMI is a good baseline indicator of general health. One poster mentioned a cardiac screening which I believe would be a part of the puzzle, but would be cumbersome and possibly costly.
People are so sold on the brand Ironman without realizing the means to the result.
Another poster mentioned it being the IMWC and people being fit. Not everyone qualified for this race.
Ironman (and half Ironman) Israel requires a letter from a cardiologist confirming the athlete completed a stress test and is fit for “extreme endurance” competition.
So cardiac screening can be done
Again, there’s a difference between Rugby and an Ironman. Mass is mass and if you’re in the obese category I believe there are risks in this sport. Not many rugby players are doing IM. Scott Bayvel is a former smoker and rugby player, but he had cleaned up his lifestyle is now a pro triathlete and a vegan as well. He is crazy fit, but very different from his rugby days.
I just got back from IM Texas and IMWC STG and saw a lot of avoidable carnage imo. Ironman requires the signing if a Waiver, but I think more needs to be done.
These races have significant health and safety risks and I’m tired of seeing people go into them with a Hero Games mentality.
In Texas, I saw an overweight woman roll into the bike finish that had to be caught at the dismount line by multiple volunteers and lowered to her side still clipped into her pedals. It appeared to be a possible cardiac event potentially due to dehydration and heat stroke or exhaustion.
In STG, many racers decided to forego the practice swims because the water was cold. There was at least one case of hypothermia and pulmonary edema.
I believe IM has to do better. I think racers should be screened via BMI and obese and overweight should not be competing. As well, at least one practice swim should be mandatory below 65F.
If you get sick or injured IM deems you are not fit to race. What about protecting those that don’t show up prepared and in good health (fit) in terms of body composition and swim safety preparedness?
