FYI: I just confirmed that Ironman Arizona was the last NAS Ironman race to have the Clydesdale and Athena categories.
From now on all athletes will be only listed by their age-group and not by their weight category:
For those of us who raced as Clydesdales and Athenas it was certainly more fun while it lasted.
For those of us who raced as Clydesdales and Athenas it was certainly more fun while it lasted.
Why? Heck, I know people who went to weigh in with boots, jeans, backpacks, bloated with water to make weight…seen less effort in college wrestling. And all…yep - FOR NOTHING.
At 220 I was always trying to lose weight.
No boots, jeans, backpacks or lead filled pockets needed 
Though I could have raced clyde last year (6’2" 210 or so ), I never did. Doesn’t seem right. It’s a pretend category IMO. Though I guess boxing and wrestling do have weight classes so why not endurance events.
I don’t know. Just seems odd.
I think this makes sense personally. The guys who won the Clydesdale categories at Beach2Battleship were big dudes, but nothing but muscle.
Let everyone race the same.
Though I could have raced clyde last year (6’2" 210 or so ), I never did. Doesn’t seem right. It’s a pretend category IMO. Though I guess boxing and wrestling do have weight classes so why not endurance events.
I don’t know. Just seems odd.
Because you are trying to physically injure the other person. Really all its saying is if your body isn’t built for tri’s were going to give you a special category. Not everyone is supposed to be fast at tri’s, just like people who are 5’3" 105 lbs going to be very good at football. But we don’t make another league for them.
Grant
Though I could have raced clyde last year (6’2" 210 or so ), I never did. Doesn’t seem right. It’s a pretend category IMO. Though I guess boxing and wrestling do have weight classes so why not endurance events.
I don’t know. Just seems odd.
Because you are trying to physically injure the other person. Really all its saying is if your body isn’t built for tri’s were going to give you a special category. Not everyone is supposed to be fast at tri’s, just like people who are 5’3" 105 lbs going to be very good at football. But we don’t make another league for them.
Grant
Sure they do!
http://www.cwfl.ca/
For those who have been to the awards ceremony after NAS events, you know that when it came to calling out names and giving Athena awards, none of the Athenas who won came forward. I guess the ladies didn’t think going in front of a crowd of 200-300 to get an award that acknowledged they were over 150lbs was the sort of public recognition they wanted. Most of them had solid times but weren’t AG podium times.
Though I could have raced clyde last year (6’2" 210 or so ), I never did. Doesn’t seem right. It’s a pretend category IMO. Though I guess boxing and wrestling do have weight classes so why not endurance events.
I don’t know. Just seems odd.
Because you are trying to physically injure the other person. Really all its saying is if your body isn’t built for tri’s were going to give you a special category. Not everyone is supposed to be fast at tri’s, just like people who are 5’3" 105 lbs going to be very good at football. But we don’t make another league for them.
Grant
Don’t forget about the “50’s” or “swifties!”
But there is lightweight rowing…
Alright, I will take the other side of this argument since the 150 pd guys seem to be bullying the heavier guys.
There is a lot of precedent for having weight categories: boxing and wrestling which are really endurance sports more than football. The thinking is overall winners will be handed out to the fastest irrespective of weight. The Clyde/Athena is to have a classification where weight is a more important consideration than age. The reality is that weight is more important than age in the over 200 pd category for males. The whole idea of having a age grouping is to compare oneself to others in a similar position. Why not end age group categories? Because that would be stupid. For better or worse, folks want to be compared to others in a similar position, whether age or weight.
Also, if you were a 210 pounder at 195 now, you really weren’t a Clyde, just an overweight age grouper. You’re right, it would not have been right and would have been a pretend category for you.
We need to make the tent bigger, let there be a big person category.
As for IM, the are a branding and business machine. It’s their sandbox; they can pick up their toys anytime they want. I hope the local race directors remember the little, I mean big, guy.
I am a Clyde and for IM 140.6 races I don’t have an issue with this merely from an administrative standpoint. Graham Watson is on record as saying that Clydes/Athenas would never get Kona slots, so why have the category. Also, you verify your age at registration, so unless you’re hell bent on making a fake ID, you’ll get caught that way.
As R10 said, I’ve seen people do crazy things to make weight. As I have said before the guy who won Clydes at IMLP this year didn’t weigh more than a 180 soaking wet.
Bob
I always was hoping for a separate bald German category.
Why does the tent have to be bigger? Just put a elastic band around the outside so when all the “big people” come in it will expand just like their pants.
For me, this whole clydesdale thing doesn’t make sense, because it too easily opens the door to include other categories that could better compare people similar situations such as: People with x amount of kids, people that work x amount of hours per week, people that train x amount of hours week (as examples).
You see my point, the whole thing could get silly. That being said, # of training hours a person puts per week in is probably a much better grouping criteria compared to weight if that is what you are trying to achieve. Steve Larson would be the world champ in this category for sure!!
Good decision for them to just keep it simple.
The clydesdale division is EXACTLY for those big dudes who are nothing but muscle. It wasn’t created for fatties, this is the biggest failure in the clydesdale movement right now.
Clydesdale racing is not for an out of shape fat guy to claim an award, although at small races that often happens. Clydesdale racing is about those large framed muscled up guys. These guys train their asses off, work VERY hard, and given their size put in some amazing performances. However due to the nature of their build, they will never score in their age group at a big race.
I have the perfect example, a friend of mine named Lance from Delaware, has a 5k time in the low 18s his size was 6’5" and 250 pounds. That performance is pretty well unbelievable, smokin. To do this he needed to d a lot of training, lot of running, all the right things and he even needed to have some natural gifts. He is built as solid as a rock, not a fat guy at all.
Now, while an admirable performance low 18s won’t even sniff the age group awards at a 5k with a decent number of runners in it. So Joe Law decided these type of performances should get an award. I think a lot of people agree that this is a reasonable thing to do.
However, at a lot of small races, it;s not only the big strongly built guys you see getting an award, occasionally you get the guy who is kinda bug but mostly just needs to lose weight. Sometimes he sneaks in there and takes an award, the problem with this is that when others see it, it changes the perception of what clydesdale racing is about. It makes people think it is about a bunch of out of shape guys giving each other awards, and that’s not really what it is about. It is EXACTKLY about the guys built like the fellows at the race you saw.
Here’s more on how it got started, notice that times follow weight, not BMI but weight.
The concept of weight division competition and the moniker “Clydesdale”, can be traced back to a Baltimore area statistician name Joe Law who founded the Clydesdale Runners Association in the mid-1980s. Joe Law convinced the race director of the Marine Corps Marathon and several other local races to include a field on race applications for competitors to record their weight. This data provided the basis for Joe’s statistical analysis of running performance vs. weight, and he determined with mathematical precision, that a runner’s weight and speed in road races are inversely proportional. Above 160 or 170 pounds there is a sharp drop off in times. This observation provided the basis for concept of weight division competition, so that big runners could compete amongst their peers, on a more level playing field. The concept is analogous to offering age-division competition in road races and has gained grudging support through the years. Joe coined the term “Clydesdale” to identify big athletes. Clydesdales are big and strong horses—perhaps not the fastest, but certainly amongst the most determined of the workhorses. Weight division competitors relish being compared to their equine anima. Sadly, Joe Law passed away in 1991 and the national Clydesdale movement stalled.
I think it should be 150 & under then 150 & over then 190 & over and then take the winners of each group and cage fight - winner takes all …hahaha
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Age and weight are the most relevant.
The other categories are interesting but it not objectively measurable, I actually would love to include these other categories. I could give those 20 something, 150 pd single child-less mono-focused triathletes a real run for the money.
Now, while an admirable performance low 18s won’t even sniff the age group awards at a 5k with a decent number of runners in it.
Right… so if you can’t compete, don’t run to compete. I realize that sucks and all (and believe me, I wish I could run an 18:xx 5k…) but that’s the nature of the beast. It’s a race. Not a race with caveats*
I guess I don’t really care how many categories they invent, but at the end of the day I look at how I did overall, and that paints the picture of my performance and successes against “the best”
I feel for your buddy. Not being anatomically built to be the fastest runner sucks, but that’s life. Stars really need to align to make the perfect athlete, the rest of us do it because we want to - and no number of “special categories,” or awards will make us any better. They just reward us for being pretty good because of some reason within or beyond our control…
I feel for your buddy.
This is ridiculous. If you want to win an award and are a muscled up person, then choose a sport that more closely matches your maximum potential. If you only participate in triathlons for the chance of getting a trophy then imho you are in it for the wrong reasons, unless you have a pro card and it affects your ability to put food on the table. I guarantee I am the fastest male in the 5’2 and under 30-34 age group, and spend more time in the weight room then on the bike - so I understand what is trying to be said, but my empathy does not blind my rational thinking