Ironman bike training in 3hr rides?

Triathlon Forum
1

I’m training for my third IM and have three time-slots in my week for riding my bike, after work and before family commitments. I have a maximum of three hours each time I ride. I understand this is not ideal and that 4, 5 and 6 hour rides are important, I just can’t fit those into my life right now so I want to make the most of what I have. I have a fairly active job (teacher) so I am on my feet a lot during the day, which means by the time I get on my bike I am definitely not fresh. I am able to fit running and swimming in during morning sessions before work.

At the moment, I use one session for time-trial focus (like 2 x 45 minutes as hard as I can hold for that duration); one session where I go looking for hills (not hard to find as I live in BC); and one session where I just hold a steady half-ironman race pace (so I might cover 100 km or so on that day). I’ve been doing this for a few weeks and have been averaging 8 hours of riding each week.

My question is, are there any other training sessions people would recommend to prepare for an IM using multiple 3 hour rides?

Is there something important I am missing out? Should I do any shorter intervals? Should I be doing 3 hours at IM race pace?

2

I think you are doing about all you can do with your time constraint. With two previous Iron distance races under your belt you should be able to gauge where you are in your fitness with your current riding plan.

3

I think you should be good with that time. Obviously if you can get 1-2 longer rides in just to rest nutrition etc that would be great but you have some experience with the distance so might not be needed. I maxed out at 3 hours for my 70.3 training and most of the rides in the last 12 weeks were tough. I did a lot of them on the trainer because of family so I did a lot of Zwift racing. They had this one P race, not sure if it is still around, that would be 1.5 hours or so. A few times I did back to back races with an easy spin between. It does seem from your post that you have a good idea of what you can do and what your plan is so I think you are good to go!

4

I did something pretty similar to this for my last couple of Ironmans. I did get in a few longer rides than three hours, but most of my longer rides were in the three hour range. I would either get up very early - starting rides around 3 AM on the trainer - or take a 1/2 day at work and get in a long ride that way.

If you are only looking at three hour rides you need to be doing more average power than you would expect to average on race day. For most of my current 3-3.5 hour rides I generally average what I’d do in a 70.3 race. I generally end up with my average power in the 80-82% range. This seems to make race power more manageable. I’d recommend the same. Some longer, low cadence work is always a good idea to work the power and help with leg strength and durability, which is what you’ll need on race day. Something like a 20-30’ warmup, then cycle through 4-5x 25’ low cadence at 85%, with 5’ easy spin between each longer interval.

5

You can do a ton on 3 hrs windows. I did a decade of IMs on 3 hrs window 5:30 am to 8:30 am on Wed and 6:30am to 9:30am on Sunday.

I was able to use two half days of vacation and convert three of those Wed morning windows into 5 hrs hard IM rides. And then I took one day of vacation to do a long IM simulation day (full swim, full bike, short run).

You don’t need week in and week out long rides. 3 hrs hard hammerfest at half IM race intensity for the bulk of it and you are set.

6

How would you define “low cadence”? I have an inkling I am already on the low end as I seem to be around 75-85 most of the time. Would you do the 25’ intervals at a cadence of 50-60, or is that too low?

7

Y

You don’t need week in and week out long rides. 3 hrs hard hammerfest at half IM race intensity for the bulk of it and you are set.

I’m wondering if I need to do some miles at IM race pace though. If I train hard for 3 hrs I will be well above what I can sustain on race day. How many long rides at IM pace would you recommend? Would 3 or 4 long ones (i.e. in the 100 mile range) at IM pace do the job? I might be able to swing that.

8

I think you are doing about all you can do with your time constraint. With two previous Iron distance races under your belt you should be able to gauge where you are in your fitness with your current riding plan.

I feel pretty fit, I guess I’m just wondering if there is a glaring omission in my three rides (e.g. I am doing no short intervals, so aside from on steep sections of the hills I am not hitting zones 4 or 5).

9

Y

You don’t need week in and week out long rides. 3 hrs hard hammerfest at half IM race intensity for the bulk of it and you are set.

I’m wondering if I need to do some miles at IM race pace though. If I train hard for 3 hrs I will be well above what I can sustain on race day. How many long rides at IM pace would you recommend? Would 3 or 4 long ones (i.e. in the 100 mile range) at IM pace do the job? I might be able to swing that.

Biking is not like running. For biking you could literally do all rides at 95-105% FTP for 30-60 minutes and then dial it back on IM day to 65-70% FTP and be fine for 180km. But you would not have specificity of dealing with neck, wind, concentration on the road, bike handling, dealing with things like rain or extreme heat. But with many 3 hrs bike rides at 85-90% FTP you will also get the outdoor riding intensityxduration. On a 3 hrs ride, you also have to work refueling, whereas in a 60 minute ride you do not.

You should therefore target taking in around 1000 calories in 3 hrs (probably a bit more concentrated than IM), but you will have to digest this at 85% FTP vs digesting at say 250 cals per hour at 70% FTP (easier). So your systems will be ready for race day when you take in say 1500 cals over 5-6 hrs at 70% FTP. Fueling is the first sport of Ironman day anyway so your 3 hrs ride will get you set for that and probably better than 5 hrs rides in training UNLESS you do the 5 hrs rides with no stops. The moment you stop to refuel, it becomes fake because your heart rated drops a lot and your body can absorb. You have to absorb at Ironman heart rate or higher, or you will have a false sense of security and on race day, your gut will rebel because you are absorbing all those cals with no stops to drop heart rate. That’s why 3 hrs at higher FTP wiht no stops to refuel is actually great.

10

You should therefore target taking in around 1000 calories in 3 hrs (probably a bit more concentrated than IM), but you will have to digest this at 85% FTP vs digesting at say 250 cals per hour at 70% FTP (easier). So your systems will be ready for race day when you take in say 1500 cals over 5-6 hrs at 70% FTP. Fueling is the first sport of Ironman day anyway so your 3 hrs ride will get you set for that and probably better than 5 hrs rides in training UNLESS you do the 5 hrs rides with no stops. The moment you stop to refuel, it becomes fake because your heart rated drops a lot and your body can absorb. You have to absorb at Ironman heart rate or higher, or you will have a false sense of security and on race day, your gut will rebel because you are absorbing all those cals with no stops to drop heart rate. That’s why 3 hrs at higher FTP wiht no stops to refuel is actually great.

I’ve never thought of it in those terms - I’ve been fuelling my 3 hour rides as 3 hour rides but I can see that it makes sense to “overfuel” so that I can get used to keeping going after three hours. 1000 calories sounds like a lot to me, I’ll have to build up to that. At the moment I take in about half that in a 3 hour ride. And thanks for the tip about fuelling with elevated heart rate, I am definitely guilty of getting off the bike at the store, buying food and then consuming it before getting back on the bike. On today’s ride I’ll bring more food on the bike with me and make sure I am consuming it with a HR of at least 120.

11

You can do a ton on 3 hrs windows. I did a decade of IMs on 3 hrs window 5:30 am to 8:30 am on Wed and 6:30am to 9:30am on Sunday.

I was able to use two half days of vacation and convert three of those Wed morning windows into 5 hrs hard IM rides. And then I took one day of vacation to do a long IM simulation day (full swim, full bike, short run).

You don’t need week in and week out long rides. 3 hrs hard hammerfest at half IM race intensity for the bulk of it and you are set.

I’m def not qualified to answer anything IM-related (no IM history for me!) but I’m always amazed/impressed that folks seem to be able to knock out IM races with decent/good results for their ability on truncated bike volume, and just a few long rides thrown in closer to race day.

I knock out 2-3 hour rides at or near HIM pace every single week, but get me to do even a 4-hr ride and even if I slow down, things suddenly get a lot harder after that 3rd hour. Hanging in there for 5 would require some serious mental prep for me even if I can hammer the 3-hr rides weekly.

12

You can do a ton on 3 hrs windows. I did a decade of IMs on 3 hrs window 5:30 am to 8:30 am on Wed and 6:30am to 9:30am on Sunday.

I was able to use two half days of vacation and convert three of those Wed morning windows into 5 hrs hard IM rides. And then I took one day of vacation to do a long IM simulation day (full swim, full bike, short run).

You don’t need week in and week out long rides. 3 hrs hard hammerfest at half IM race intensity for the bulk of it and you are set.

I’m def not qualified to answer anything IM-related (no IM history for me!) but I’m always amazed/impressed that folks seem to be able to knock out IM races with decent/good results for their ability on truncated bike volume, and just a few long rides thrown in closer to race day.

I knock out 2-3 hour rides at or near HIM pace every single week, but get me to do even a 4-hr ride and even if I slow down, things suddenly get a lot harder after that 3rd hour. Hanging in there for 5 would require some serious mental prep for me even if I can hammer the 3-hr rides weekly.

That thread perfectly explains why you see most athletes on the bullhorns in later parts (past 3-4 hrs) of their IM rides.
But that’s just a minor aesthetic issue only, as bike-pics are normally taken early on.
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13

You can do a ton on 3 hrs windows. I did a decade of IMs on 3 hrs window 5:30 am to 8:30 am on Wed and 6:30am to 9:30am on Sunday.

I was able to use two half days of vacation and convert three of those Wed morning windows into 5 hrs hard IM rides. And then I took one day of vacation to do a long IM simulation day (full swim, full bike, short run).

You don’t need week in and week out long rides. 3 hrs hard hammerfest at half IM race intensity for the bulk of it and you are set.

I’m def not qualified to answer anything IM-related (no IM history for me!) but I’m always amazed/impressed that folks seem to be able to knock out IM races with decent/good results for their ability on truncated bike volume, and just a few long rides thrown in closer to race day.

I knock out 2-3 hour rides at or near HIM pace every single week, but get me to do even a 4-hr ride and even if I slow down, things suddenly get a lot harder after that 3rd hour. Hanging in there for 5 would require some serious mental prep for me even if I can hammer the 3-hr rides weekly.

If you can hammer 3 hrs at 85-90% FTP you can go at a reduced hammering pace of 65-70% FTP for 6 hrs with zero training but you MUST stay strict to the max pace and you have to fuel for 6 hrs.

I can hammer at 85-90% FTP for 2.5 to 3 hrs on barely one bottle. Why. I already have 2 hrs of glycogen stored on my body. I can deplete that and on one bottle basically get enough calories to keep up the pace to the 3 hrs mark and end that workout on empty.

This is a false sense of security of using my 3 hrs ride to project to being able to last for 6 hrs. If I dial back to 70% FTP and I use the same fueling as my 3 hrs hammerfest, I will also be on empty at 4 hrs (can last a bit longer due to reduced pace). Keep in mind if you do NOTHING for 4 hrs you will get hungry due to your base metabolism alone, and this is a fixed overhead that you have to carry for the 6 hrs ride. You have to fuel for the extra workload and you have to fuel for the extra base metabolism

Here is some math.

Let’s say you have hammer a 90km off 1850 kilojoules
Let’s say you cruise a 180km off 3500 kilojoules (you should use less kilojoules to cover each 90km in a 180 than you do hammering faster in a standalone 90km due to the fact that you create more aerodynamic drag moving faster in the same aero position)

So you have to put an extra 1650 kilojoules to the road than during the 90km plus you have your base metabolism that also needs some feeding at some point. So let’s just say you need 2000 calories to survive the extra time (after the 4x conversion to calories and then dividing by 4 given human body efficiency of converting input energy to mechanical).

So there is your rough math (depending on your size) for scaling from 3 hrs to 6 hrs. Its more about pacing and fueling than fitness.

If you have 3 hrs bike fitness you have 6 hrs bike fitnessIf you have 3 hrs bike fueling you may not have 6 hrs bike fuelingIf you have 3 hrs bike pacing you may not have 6 hrs bike pacing
I did one 4 hrs ride in the last 5 years and generally my long ride is 2-3 hrs. I could get on the bike tomorrow and do a 180km ride without a problem. It would just be a gigantic pacing and fueling exercise. Almost nothing to do with fitness. The 6 hrs outing would just be a very slow version of my 90km ride (already slow), but totally doable.

Oh and my neck may not like it since holding up my neck for 6 hrs or 3 hrs is the same workload for double the time, It does not get easier just cause I am going at lower intensity, but it really is minor. And you or I would not be the only one. I saw Alistair Brownlee riding bolt upright at Waikaloa on the way back from Hawi to Kona at Ironman 2019. He looked like a BOP age grouper in that position, so yeah, even tough for the best. But the main thing is pacing and fueling

14

Not my experience, but that of a mate (of course).

He doesn’t do too many long rides (works as a consultant) but tries to get in before a race 3-4 * 5-6 hour hard rides on a Saturday, followed by 2 hours hard on a Sunday. in the months leading up to an IM.

What works for him may not work for you - anecdota trumps nothing - but for him it’s worked pretty well. He tends to go to Hawaii every 5 years and has won his AG several times. He’s also a freak with a 2:29 mara PB and even on one swim a week stays under the hour.

15

Not my experience, but that of a mate (of course).

He doesn’t do too many long rides (works as a consultant) but tries to get in before a race 3-4 * 5-6 hour hard rides on a Saturday, followed by 2 hours hard on a Sunday. in the months leading up to an IM.

What works for him may not work for you - anecdota trumps nothing - but for him it’s worked pretty well. He tends to go to Hawaii every 5 years and has won his AG several times. He’s also a freak with a 2:29 mara PB and even on one swim a week stays under the hour.

I’d suggest most IM training plans (bought as a whole, or put together by a coach) have only 3-4 long rides in them. i.e. that’s pretty standard

16

Damien was clearly ahead of the curve!

17

3-hour rides are legit opportunities and you should make the most of them to overcome the lack of very long rides. My suggestions, from personal experience:

  • do two of those rides per week on back-to-back days…day 1 with a legit FTP workout on the front end of the ride and day 2 holding very constant 85% moderate (but real effort) power
  • try and take a vacation week 5 or 6 weeks out from your race and do some longer rides if you can, in the context of 400+ miles in 6 or so days
  • if you can’t do the vacation approach above, take that week and reduce your swim and run and do a week of the longest rides you can get in to really load up on bike volume

I have been very similarly constrained in the past and have used the above approach and it worked pretty well for me.

18

You should try to make a plan with 2PEAK. Depending on your ability, schedule etc. we could recommend multiple 3 hour sessions on the bike.

2peak.com

19

I feel pretty fit, I guess I’m just wondering if there is a glaring omission in my three rides (e.g. I am doing no short intervals, so aside from on steep sections of the hills I am not hitting zones 4 or 5).

You don’t need short intervals (unless you are VO2 limited). Lots of sweetspot (structured and unstructured), dial in your nutrition strategy. Negotiate for 3 longer rides leading into race day.
Get strong and aero and the long rides won’t need to be over 5hrs

20

Damien was clearly ahead of the curve!

His weekly Saturday ride is pretty solid!

By the way…any idea why he hasn’t run for a few weeks?