Interleague play

Amen brother. It’s a big excuse to get the Yankes and Mets to play each other way too often in June, which frankly eliminates almost all of the appeal of them playing in October since they play each other so g-damn many times already.

However, being a Tigers fan, I should point out that we get our historically significant games against Washington, Colorado and Arizona, instead of wasting time playing teams like Toronto.

The sad part is, most teams market interleague games as “premium games”, and the suckers, er, I mean ticket buyers fall for it…

I agree. I remember when I was growing up in Chicago, the Crosstown Classic was a fairly big deal. Now I couldn’t even tell you when the Sox and Cubs will play. Sad.

It took you 22 minutes to respond to this thread?

Didn’t you hear your alarm going off? =)

Interleague play was/is one of those ideas that must’ve seemed like a great idea at the time, but once the novelty has worn off, it’s really not that big of a deal.

I admit, the appeal to me has worn off completely. I went to the first interleague series featuring Kansas City and St. Louis (in Kansas City) and got hounded ALL GAME LONG while wearing my powder blue throwback Willie McGee #51 jersey. It was fun, but now an I-70 series is not all that exciting. The Windy City Series is still big around here, and I’m sure the Subway Series, and LA-LAA, SF-OAK are still interesting to those in the immediate area.

I don’t think much (if any) has been taken away from the world series via interleague. It’s still the world series. The league championship series don’t seem to be diminished … even if the 2 teams playing in it are from the same division (Houston v. St. Louis, for example).

At times it seems that IL play was created for the stat-geeks, so they can have a whole new category of stats to track. “All Time leader of IL homer runs, etc”. What? Who cares?

It is a revenue-generator in those areas where fans of both teams either hate each other of flip-flop sides based on who’s currently winning.


It would make more sense, rather than have the All-Star game decide which league gets home-field in the WS, to award the league with the best overall IL record for that year.

If they wanted to make the All-Star game competitive, why not raise the prize money AND make it winner take all? Heck, that at least applies to more peole than just the players of the teams that have a realistic shot at the WS.

Read some good articles on “payroll cap” at baseballprospectus the other day, anyone interested in that discussion?

Hey, I was training. What can I say?..lol…

I just go back to 2000. First Subway Series in 44 years. Should be a great moment for baseball. Lowest ratings ever for a series at the time. By a lot. You can’t tell me that the fact they had been facing each other 6 times a season for the previous 4 years, splashed all over ESPN and Fox didn’t have a lot to do with the lack of interest in that series.

I also enjoy the stats about the increased attendance, etc. that it brings. Hmmm, cherry pick weekends in June, and a small sampe size. nice. Play some of the games in Detroit or Cleveland in april and see what kind of attendance they get.

It has taken away from the WS because you get teams who, if they didn’t meet during the season, they have met in the last couple of seasons. The World Series has now just become the playoffs final. It’s just another distinction that appears small but is huge. Same as whether you consider October a reward for regular season champions, or a process to determine a champion. Sound slike the same hting, but it’s not, an the difference really is huge.

The biggest problem is, until Selig is gone, IL play will not go away because he will not admit that his ideas may not be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and his sycophants he has running bseball will not do anything to upset the master.

I just think hom field in the WS should go back to alternating. Different schedules, different teams, everything is so different there is no way you can say one thing can defintively say this league should get home field. IL just gives people enough of a sniff to think it says something, but it doesn’t. I that number of games could tell you something, the Brewers would have the NL pennant this year.

I may not be able to reply for a few days, but that payroll stuff sounds interesting.

Read some good articles on “payroll cap” at baseballprospectus the other day, anyone interested in that discussion?

Yes. Let me read them first.

I was originally opposed to the idea of interleague play…but I’ve relaxed a bit…still not a huge fan…but I dont believe it’s the evil that I thought it was going to be…

…what I would like to see is play the games by opposing rules…that is DH in the NL Parks and Pitchers hit in the AL parks – give the fans something different…and help to balance the play for teams that are built differently…

…as for other thoughts – keep the unbalanced NL format for scheduling – if you play a balanced schedule…then friggin get rid of divisions and take the top 4 records…

…eliminate the DH

…the All-Star game is an EXHIBITION game – it should NOT impact homefield for the WS

…McGwuire, Sosa, Bonds…all get in the Hall or nobody from this era does…Palmiero - no - he tested positive…the others are all speculation…

-Ron

Should be a great moment for baseball. Lowest ratings ever for a series at the time. By a lot. You can’t tell me that the fact they had been facing each other 6 times a season for the previous 4 years, splashed all over ESPN and Fox didn’t have a lot to do with the lack of interest in that series.

IMO, that had to do more with no west on NY giving a crap … osrta like how no one outside of Illinois-Texas wanted to watch the 05 World Series despite it featuring the most games settled after the 7th inning of any WS in recent memory.

For a WS to get decent ratings, it needs to be NY v. LA (but not the angels) … I guess.

It has taken away from the WS because you get teams who, if they didn’t meet during the season, they have met in the last couple of seasons.


Define “takes away” or “taken away”? You mean it means less to the fans of those teams? It means less to the players? It makes them less of a champ? Fewer people watch? I agree that it might not be as “special” as two teams that have never played … but really, is that a deciding factor in the people that view the World Series. “Oh, I’m not watching the Baltimore-Atlanta World Series, I saw them play a regular season game last year. Ho-hum.” Would any casual sports fan say this?

Doesn’t seem to affect the playoffs of the other sports, where playoff series feature teams that have played already. I know baseball isn’t other sports but in this context we’re talking about viewing sports, and I don’t see how playing during the regular season would diminish baseball’s championship series, but not the playoffs of other sports.

How many people stopped watching the playoffs last year once the Mets, Yankess and Red Sox were eliminated? Seemingly everyone excepy you, me, and my dad. =) I don’t think that has to do with the Tiger-Cards regular season IL series.

I just think hom field in the WS should go back to alternating.

Fine by me.

Thinking about this some more …

What kills the playoffs/WS to me is …

  1. The late ending time of the games. I’m a hge baseball fan. I’m a huge cardinal fan. Thank God Yadier Molina hit that homer b/c I couldn’t take anymore of being up to 11:30-12 at night and then not being able to sleep for 1-2 hours from excitement. Why do games have to go that late? The games take sooooo long, and seemingly start late.

  2. The World Series takes place 3-4 weeks into football season.

Agreed - the gamers are too long and start too late to keep the casual fan watching the whole time, never mind kids who have to get up for school the next morning. If your team is in it, you are up until almost midnight and are then too wound up to go to sleep when you have to get up for work the next morning. When the Sox made their run in '04, I was in a fog at work for two weeks, as was everyone else who was staying up late to watch.

Yeah, I watched the 04 series from the other side of the bleachers … the one that wondered when Scottie Rolen is going to actually get a world series hit.

I have to admit, the BoSox played perhaps the greatest 8 game streak in history.

…ahh…but I grew up out here in the west…early start times mean we miss the first several innings…as it is an 8:00pm eastern start time…people on the west coast wouldnt even be home from work until the 3rd or 4th inning…

Thats why they need to have DAY games…

…and yes…having the WS end BEFORE friggin november would help as well…

Hmmm…I can watch the 4th game of the WS…or this great football game…for most of the viewing audience, football wins…

Just my thoughts…

Why do games have to go that late? The games take sooooo long, and seemingly start late.

Because in the playoffs and WS the pitchers take five fricken’ minutes between each and every pitch (compared to the usual 1 minute during regular season). Drives me nuts!! They should have a WS “pitching play clock”.

Sadly the DH is here to stay…I don’t like it but I can live with it. The All-Star game determining home field for the WS is totally, wholly, and completely unexcusable and demonstrates just how out of touch with the players Mr. Selig is.

Quite possibly the worst commissioner of any sport ever.

IMO, it’s the batters that slow the game down.

Most pitchers want to get into a rhytum and work reasonably fast. Hitters, on the other hand, want to “reset” everything after every pitch. Adjust batting gloves, refit wrist bands, adjust helmet, step in, practice swings, etc.

I’m not a big fan of allowing pitchers to leave the mound or hitters to step out of the box in between pitches. Unecessary. I blame Nomar.

Hate to say I agree with Jimmy Roberts in anything, but he had a quote video on nbcsports.com. He hates Interleague play as well. It all comes down to baseball(or ESPN and Fox,since a low rated world series doesn’t seem to tell them not to feature them,)wanting the Mets to play the Yankees, a distant second Cubs and White Sox. Like he says, sure it was nice that Barry Bonds hit a home run in Fenway Park, but how special would that have been had it been in the world series?

It’s like the whole deal with taking out the swim option at IMCdA today. People are willing to give up special in order to see a false replica. Bonds coming to bat in Fenway in June is just a manufactured event. Bonds making his first appearance in Fenway in October would be special. The Tigers and Cardinals have not had a world series rematch. They have played a few games this season, but those games should have never been played, and a rematch only occurs in October. Just like the wild card. 1993, 1987, 1978 and down the line. People loved it so much, they pushed for a wild card so you could have it every year. guess what? The fact something doesn’t happen every year is what makes it special.

TT always dismisses this as “that’s how things are now,” but the Twins last season would have been an epic story for ages coming back from 8.5 games down in early August to win on the last day. But because of how it works they’re just a team that got intot he playoffs and lost in 4 games. The 1987 Tigers lost in the ALCS, but they are remembered for the pennant race and 7 one-run games with the Blue Jays the last week and a half of the season. While I’m a Tigers fan, and the Tigers benefited from the system, what baseball lost in this I think is immense. I don’t think TT even realizes what a sad commentary “that’s how things are now” is on Bud Selig’s regime. Baseball’s lore has always had many prongs: The World Series between league champions who have not played each other, pennant races where it goes down the wire sometimes, and a great team goes home, the long season where flukes cannot happen, the flow of season to season with every additional season adding a litle something to the allure of the game, and then of course the nine innings themselves. Now, the World Series is essentially a playoffs final between two teams that got through their half of a draw(the distinction is huge), it’s likely an 88 win team as opposed to a 96 win team that goes home, fewer wins required for WC/division title makes a fluke more likely.

'That’s the way it is now" frankly puts baseball on trial, if you will, every October, and nothing else matters. I enjoy hockey a fair bit, and an individual game will get my attention, but I barely watched any playoffs. There is no excitement in seeing if a team that is 30 points behind the top team can slide past another team 30 points back, and unless a game goes to sudden death overtime, who really cares, because there will be another one tomorrow night. So basically, AFAIC, this past hockey season amounted to Syndey Crosby winning his first scoring title. “That’s the way things are now” tells me baseball is headed down the same path. The rarity that made baseball so special is being washed away. The teams in the world series have very likely played each other in the last 2-3 seasons, so hey, they’re playing each other again. There are more playoff games, so if you miss one, no big deal, just turn on the next one. It’s easier to get into the playoffs, so those regular season games don’t mean as much because there’s plenty of chances to make the playoffs, even if you aren’t really any good that season. Take away all of those things, and if you have a showcase where the baseball being played is less than stellar, then it’s a failure, because you have basically pinned all your hopes on that.

I realize I am likely in the minority on this because most seem to be willing to take a cheap imitation now, rather than wait for the possibility of the real thing, even though it may not happen. IL play is just another symptom of Bud Selig trying to turn baseball into other sports. When it suits his purpose(post 9-11, etc.) he will refer to baseball as a “social institution”, but really he wants to be like other sports. Those who get their opinions from what they read in the papers will say that would be a good thing. Frankly it will be a real sad day, if we haven’t gotten there already.

TT always dismisses this as “that’s how things are now,” but the Twins last season would have been an epic story for ages coming back from 8.5 games down in early August to win on the last day.


I figure …

  1. The game’s changed.

  2. I can’t either accept the change or waste a lot of breath talking about how great it used to be. No amount of complaining is going to do away with free agency, bring back pitcher’s hitting in the American league, do away with astroturf and night games, rid us of interleague play and the wild card.

The truth is, regardles of what the Twins did last season, most fans wouldn’t remember them because they lost in the playoffs. People, generally, don’t remember losers. THe Phillies collapsed by losing something like 9 of the last 13 games and the Cardinals won the division. I can’t tell you what year it was, and I only remember it because I’m a rabid cardinal fan. MOST baseball fans don’t remember stuff like that, just us freaks.

I have already described in a thread a long time ago that I prefer the old 2 8-team division setup, and I miss the Cardinals having pennant chases with the Mets and Phillies; I like the Braves, Reds, Giants, and Dodgers beating it out in the West. But, things were realigned for more regional matchups. It doesn’t make much sense for Cincy to be in the West and St. Louis int he East.

At this point, I’m just fine with baseball. I STILL love the powder blue away jerseys and the Rainbow Houston Astros (STILL wear my bright orange Houston hat in honor of Jose Cruz ← SENIOR), but none of that is coming back. So, I’m not really going to invest a bunch of energy into trying to fight against it. In the end, the best teams still have to win a lot of games against the other best teams to win the series.

Why not argue to go back to just having one division in each league, to where the regular season essentially means EVERYTHING? Why should there be two divisions which essentially forces the team with the most wins to play the team with the second most wins. Didn’t the regular season already establish who should represent each league in the series? You’re/We’re simply arguing “which degree of cheap replica” we prefer. You’re argueing for one round of playoffs, others are for two rounds. In both scenarios, one clear cut team with the most wins has to play a team with fewer regular season wins.

I like the AL/NL East/West setup, but those days are gone. I’m just accepting baseball as it is … not saying I prefer the current setup. At this point, I just want games that don’t cost me $200 to attend in person and that don’t take 3.5 hours to watch on TV. I’m REALLY against baseball that STARTS in the snow and ENDS in the snow. I love baseball as much as any person on Earth, but the season’s too damn long. They keep “adding” stuff to the year without taking anything away. LONGER playoffs should equate to SHORTER regular season.


You wanna get me talking about chgange in baseball, let’s talk about the Yankees and Red Sox essentially buy into the playoffs each year. I want to see teams make it on the good decisions/drafts they make, rather than who has the most money to compensate for bad personnel decisions. Listening to how “great” franchises are when they essentially have every advantage before the season, doesn’t impress me.

The rarity that made baseball so special is being washed away. The teams in the world series have very likely played each other in the last 2-3 seasons, so hey, they’re playing each other again.


BF75, here’s where we look at the same situation and see different things. I see the Cardinals-Tigers world series as the games that meant “everything”. Their interleague series this year as a world series rematch where the games that meant “nothing”. The Tigers swept the Cardinals in a 3 game series that meant “nothing” because the Cardinals already won the series that meant “something”. I don’t see where already playing during the season necessarily ruins the World Series. Granted it may not be as “special”, but the World Series still means EVERYTHING.

The sad state of affairs, if that’s the case, really comes down to “if the Yankess aren’t in the series, the ratings are down”. Last year the Tigers had a great turnaround season and featured a ton of young talent and the Cardinals are the most-dominant National League team in the last century and have been to the series 2 times in the last 3 years. The 2005 World Series featured the closest games I can remember, yet so few tuned in.

so those regular season games don’t mean as much because there’s plenty of chances to make the playoffs, even if you aren’t really any good that season.

I don’t think the chances to make the playoffs are as plentiful as you suggest … and even when the San Diego Padres do make the playoffs, they take an early exit. I do concede that it allows a dominant team like the Cardinals to make the playoffs when they suffer through a year of injuries in a weak division.

Your nemisis, the WildCard, is a result of divisional realignment. I like the realignment, but would prefer it to be in 2 divisions rather than three. It almost seems as if we’re waiting for more expansion so we can have 4 divisions in two leagues, setting up a “division winners only” playoff setting.

The 3 divisions setup via divisional realignment is what led to the Wildcard. The Wildcard is just the instrument that gets an even number of teams in the playoff. I would vote for 2 divisions of regional teams in each league … but no one is asking for my vote.

“I blame Nomar.”

Remember when Mike Hargrove played? He was known as “The Human Rain Delay” for all the time he’d take in between pitches to step out, fix his helmet/gloves, grip has bat, touch his crotch etc.

Nomar is ridiculous with his whole OCD routine - during his peak here, there were Little Leaguers all over the Boston area doing the same thing in between pitches.

I don’t mind the wild card. There’s always an interesting race at the end of the season for someone, especially if you really like baseball. The inter-league thing is lame, and takes away the special thing about the series which is the mixing of the two leagues that is only supposed to happen once a year. Even when the Cubs and Sox played the Crosstown Classic back in the day, it was purely an exhibition game. Now you get the Yankees and Red Sox playing a quarter of their games against eachother, and ratings go down if one of those teams isn’t in the post season, and we don’t trust the players to be performing sans chemical enhancement. All in all, the game has taken some serious hits recently.

There’s always an interesting race at the end of the season for someone, especially if you really like baseball.


I agree. The thing is, even if we have 2 divisions in each league, the playoffs are a (suppossed) “letdown”, because (for the most part) the top teams in East (of both leagues) are more talented (and more exciting) than the teams that would be in the West. You could have Detroit v. Anaheim in the playoffs (two extremelly good teams) and no one would care.

The decline in baseball, IMO, has more to do with certain franchises being “player development” for the big 6 teams that gobble up all the talent. So, we get situations where we go crazy about a 70-win Kansas City team (a franchise that was a consistent West contender in the 70s/80s) and a 75-win Florida team. The big 6 teams can dump money at players that don’t pan out, and rather than being forced to live with those decisions, they just go dump some money on another mega-talent. Why? because they can.

I believe that free agency has killed fan loyalty to a significant degree. If I lived in Kansas City why would I fall in love with Johnny Damon or Carlos Beltran when I know they’re gone as soon as their contract runs out or as soon as they’re traded for even younger talent in a playoff chase?

Teams rarely “play out” a season. They’re either trading for a playoff chase or dumping players during a playoff chase. The player turnover has made it very difficult for the non-rabid baseball fan to keep up with everything.

All in all, the game has taken some serious hits recently.


That will all change when A-Rod hits his 800th homer.