I know we have some insurance types here, and I’m interested in folks’ thoughts.
Back in early November, my son (while away at college) was involved in a car accident. The other driver was cited for failure to yield the right of way; she basically turned into him. There is about $5k worth of damage done to a 2015 Subaru Forester. Her court case has been resolved, and she was fined $200. This happened in VA and the driver holds a VA DL, and the car she was driving is titled in VA.
The car she was driving was her brothers, and he was insured through Direct Auto Insurance. We filed a claim with them, and they initially accepted the claim and issued an Estimate of Record. We’re scheduled to take the car to the body shop at the end of the month for the work to be done.
Earlier this week I got a notice from Direct Auto Insurance that they were resending the claim and denying coverage. The driver was not listed as a driver on the brother’s policy, and because of this, they are saying his policy is null and void and have cancelled the policy.
I’ve had additional conversations with the driver in terms of if she was insured, and she says yes but can’t seem to produce a policy number. Further, the company she says she was insured with has no record of her. I think I smell an uninsured driver.
I’ve spoken with our agent, and I didn’t find it particularly helpful beyond saying we can file a claim under our insurance (car has collision coverage).
With all that said, I’m interested in some thoughts.
Does anyone have any thoughts on Direct National canceling the policy after the fact? Is this common? I get the general argument, but it would seem like they should drop him and still cover the claim.
I know we could sue the driver in small claims court but that feels unproductive. If she’s uninsured, she’s not going to have any assets. To that end, the best option is to go through her/his insurance. Is there value in speaking with an attorney on that front?
Sometimes you are the windshield and sometimes you’re the bug; are we the bug? I don’t mind putting time into this if there is a high probability it is going to yield a good result . But if we are just out of luck, I would rather not throw good energy and time after bad.
I don’t do autos, but I would think that you would file the claim through your insurance and let them figure out who to subrogate against. They have lawyers who do that. Let them handle it.
When/if they recover from them (insurance, brother, or sister) they will reimburse your deductible.
A few years ago I had a motorcycle drift into my lane and hit the back end of my car. I filed a claim with my insurance company and they paid for repairs. They later recovered money from the driver’s insurance company and returned my deductible.
One advantage to going through my/your own insurance company is that they know you aren’t at fault and that they should be able to recover damages. So they are probably not going to attempt to get out of paying for any related damages because they know that it won’t be coming out of their pocket in the long run.
To add: it is hard for you to know whether DAI was right to deny the claim.
If the sister was frequently using her brother’s car, then DAI has a fair argument that they never agreed to insure her. She should have been added to the policy and DAI could set a premium reflecting her additional risk. Canceling the policy prospectively — your suggestion — still forces them to bear a risk they didn’t know about and weren’t agreeing to bear. If it was infrequent, then it’s just part of the risk they assumed when insuring the brother.
Either way, those facts are outside your control/knowledge and you don’t want to be in a position of having to prove them just for a $5k claim.
Your choices seem to be:
Sue her, and make her try to force DAI to cover the claim.
Go through your insurance, and they can decide whether to go after DAI or cover the claim themself under un/underinsured coverage.
Eat the loss.
Sounds like 2 is the best option. But, I’d get that done ASAP and before doing repair work. Your insurer may have some rules about which repair shop you use.
I’ll also say file a claim with your insurance. I had a guy back into me in parking lot, he admitted fault, and we exchanged insurance and contact info. I filed a claim as soon as I got home. Once I got a repair estimate I contacted him to see if he’d prefer to handle it without insurance. He said yes, then promptly went dark. I let my insurance know and they took it from there. MY insurance told me to get the repairs, and to pay my deductible. I was contacted by his insurance at some point stating they could no longer contact him either. I eventually got my deductible back. I think the whole process took ~2 months.
Going through your insurance will add time to process, it was worth it to me.
ETA: Another consideration, at least around here, most of the reputable body shops only work with insurance, they have so many insurance claims they don’t need out of pocket work. My neighbor is a general manager for Caliber Collision, so I got a lot of good inside scoop how to navigate the process.
As everyone is saying, file with your insurance carrier. This is pretty common where opposing insurer tries to dodge responsibility. Let their lawyers work it out. You’re just out the deductible until/if they collect. It’s cheaper than an attorney even if they don’t end up collecting. Most auto accident attorneys work on contingency and without an opposing insurer to go after, they may not want to deal with it.
I think most states require uninsured motorist coverage for this exact reason so though you are collision only, you should be covered.
There are so many new/small insurance companies out there now that compete solely on price to meet state minimum requirements. This is the kind of stuff that happens. I had a similar situation years back where guy had a Progressive Insurance card, I called on scene and they gave me a claim number. Then I called back later and they said “actually, he let his policy lapse recently and he wasn’t covered”. I ended up having to file with my insurer.
More recently, I was hit while riding my bike and the other person was of course ticketed. Though he admitted fault on scene and there was a police report, his insurer which no one had ever heard of including the police officer on scene (literally called the number to make sure it was real) slow walked things for 5 weeks claiming they couldn’t get hold of the insured so they couldn’t start claims process as there was no admission of liability. I didn’t want to deal with it then (was in physical therapy and all that) so I just had an attorney friend of mine who does auto accidents go after them.
Like other have said, take it to your insurance company and let them fight with the counter party. That’s their job, not yours and what you pay them for. FYI you should have already told your insurance company about it, when it happened, regardless of fault. They would find out anyway through reporting.
Also, for the most part, cars are insured, not people. The insurance follows the car, not the person (except for rentals, etc..). Point is, you’re chasing ghosts with the girl asking about whether she has auto insurance not tied to the car that she was driving. It is a moot point.
You should never need to speak to the other driver and need to stop. That is your insurance company to do.
Looks like you’ve done it the right way. Initially going through her (the other drivers) insurance as none of it was your fault so your insurance need not even get involved at all.
But if the other insurer is denying coverage, then yes, your next option would be to go through your insurance – and have them sort it out with other party. Subrogation was mentioned, and that’s just your insurance collecting from the other.
And as someone said, the insurance is typically on the car. Insurers like to assign drivers to cars in their policies and record keeping. But a different driver does not need to be named on the policy to be covered. e.g. If I let you drive my car, and you crash it, my insurance coverages are still in effect.
To add - you have the right to have the car repaired at a shop of your choice. The bodyshop your insurance will point you to will typically be the cheapest, and not necessarily the best. It pays to have a shop that’s also experienced with working with insurers as a good shop will typically know how to get additional repairs/costs/parts covered, vs. you having to pay the difference.
Just went through this - super easy with my insurance.
Someone hit/ran my truck in a parking lot and bashed in the front bumper/headlight.
Shot an email to my insurance guy with a photo.
Email back saying the claims rep would be contacting me. CR called and explained she would text me a link to take photos and send back (just follow instructions in link). CR also said I could choose any shop, just let them know so they would get rental car ready.
Took photos via text link and sent back. Made appointment to take to shop. Let CR know details.
Took truck to shop, got rental (covered by insurance).
Money deposited into my bank account prior to truck being fixed. I just had to pay my deductible.
Truck fixed about a week earlier than expected. Pay shop from funds already deposited. Truck looks brand new.
Generally, there’s a distinction between regular drivers who should be on the policy, vs permissible use by an occasional driver. In the OP, if the sister lived in the same household, then she would likely be considered to be a regular driver and should be on the policy. If she didn’t live in the same household then she could be considered to be an occasional driver.
If someone’s had too much to drink and asks someone else to drive their car home, that is covered under occasional and ok use. Ain’t nobody got time to add the driver to a policy in that scenario.
Here, the UK, even if you have a no fault claim e.g. my car is rear ended, irrespective of whether I notify my insurance, the other participant would have notified mine and my premiums go up
So as a matter of course I notify them and unfortunately my premiums increase
In the past, I’ve always filed against the person’s insurance on my own, and it is never been a problem. So I proceeded as I’ve done in the past. You either deal with the adjuster from their company or yours, and it sort of felt six of one, half dozen the other.
Partially related story about “let’s not go through insurance”. That line seems to be the first out of people’s mouths when they are at fault around here. Had it happen to me twice in incidents that weren’t my fault.
My wife worked for our city in safety and disability. We were stopped at a light when we were (slowly) rear ended by a city bus. We got out of the car, as did the bus driver. The first thing out of his mouth, “Let’s not go through insurance”. My wife looks at him funny and says no, you have to call you supervisor, and this person, and this person, etc. We found out later that the guy was not licensed to drive a bus, and not even a city employee. He was a bus driver’s cousin or brother or something, and had taken his shift. Both the driver and the guy who hit us got fired.
Luckily we weren’t injured, and aren’t litigious. If we were either of those things, the city would have been in big trouble.
It’s not necessarily a bad thing to avoid using insurance unless you have to. It can prevent a rate increase - for you and everyone else.
The person at fault will most certainly see their rates increase. Insurers will also try to split the at-fault determination (to protect their customers, they will try to get the other party to bear some responsibility, and therefore have that insurer cover some costs). Even if you’re at zero fault, having an incident on your record can raise your rates.
Basically, insurers will always recoup their costs. More claims will pretty much lead to higher rates - directly from those that have claims; and/or distributing those costs amongst everyone, even those that didn’t have claims.
Related to all this are 2 perspectives on insurance…
It’s there to cover the costs of repairs. That’s what you’ve been paying premiums for. Get them to cover any costs for any repairs.
It’s there to cover prohibitively expensive repairs. If an expense is a hardship for you, then that’s when to tap into insurance. Otherwise take care of it outside insurance.