Increase your running cadence

Triathlon Forum
1

Are you paying attention to increase running cadence during your training?
I noticed that Frederik Van Lierde was running with a cadence of 180 steps per minute while passing Kienle in the Ironman run.
In this post, I looked at Frederik Van Lierde and Wilson Kipsang during his WR marathon run in Berlin.

http://www.endurancepeakcoaching.com/…-and-running-cadence

The optimal running cadence of 180 steps per minute seem still to be valid.
Who’s implementing drills and glute strength exercises in training and which exercises/drills are your favourites?

Single leg squats, (single leg) bridges and planks are very good exercises to improve core stability and glute strength.

2

I have made a point to work on this over the winter. I have periodically tried counting the past few years and used to be around 80 and have increased to about 85 by doing some drills. Want to try to increase further.

I just bought a metronome from the chi running website (http://store.chiliving.com/ChiRunning-Products/ChiRunning-Apparel/Metronome) and plan to us this to work on increasing my cadence. It cost like $25 and is small enough it doesn’t bounce when running.

3

Are you paying attention to increase running cadence during your training?
I noticed that Frederik Van Lierde was running with a cadence of 180 steps per minute while passing Kienle in the Ironman run.
In this post, I looked at Frederik Van Lierde and Wilson Kipsang during his WR marathon run in Berlin.

http://www.endurancepeakcoaching.com/…-and-running-cadence

The optimal running cadence of 180 steps per minute seem still to be valid.

Optimal for whom?

4

I question this. Yes, people running really fast have a high cadence. Do you think they have the cadence at their recovery pace, I would think not. Notice in your post Kipsang has a cadence 5% faster than Van Lierde, that seems relevant, since Kipsang was running faster. I do not see any proof that 180 is some magic number, just that really fast people seem to be close to it, but another explanation is that cadence increases as speed increases. I think it makes more sense that as you run faster, your cadence increases, maybe not linearly. I believe someone even did this for the olympic 10k, the runners cadence was directly related to their speed at that portion of the race.

Obviously for people that are overstriding, increasing the cadence is a way for them to shorten their stride and fix a flaw. But, that is to correct a flaw, not because the higher cadence is better, just that shorter strides are better.

Also what does glute strength and core strength have to do with this?

5

Yes and no. I’ve read that Jack Daniels’ research on this (which established the 90bpm “rule”) was based on elites in competition, without consideration of how they might have trained. There’s also research that shows that an individual’s pace and cadence are correlated – most people naturally increase or decrease their cadence as they speed or slow. So 90 is not necessarily the target to shoot for, depending on who you are and what you’re doing.

(I say “90” to mean “180” because cadence pods give the readout of one foot, and without a footpod it’s easier to count one than two.)

That said, I watch my cadence fairly closely. For me, 90rpm is good for marathon pace, but is a bit slow for 10k pace, where I’m closer to 92-94. For a 5k, I’m 95 rpm or more. I’ve got short-ish legs (30" inseam). I used to run with a very short and fast girl whose cadence was over 100.

I do find that anything slower than about 90 is plodding, and causes me to overstride a bit. I started to pay attention to cadence in the first place when I was trying to shorten my stride and avoid the braking effect.

I think the actual number, and the range, depends on the individual. A person with long legs/tendons would seem to have a slower cadence and a longer stride – picture a running giraffe, or a pronghorn antelope with its springy and slow cadence. At the other end, a dachshund’s legs are a blur.

6

as Chaparral said changing (increasing) your run cadence could be good if you are needing to fix a flaw in your run stride. The bottom line is getting your center of gravity over or even slightly ahead of your foot strike. If this is a problem for you, then one means of fixing it could be increasing your cadence. Could also mean trying to land more mid foot then on your heels. But the main thing is that an increased cadence or mid foot strike isn’t always the best way to run but could be the means for fixing a stride flaw. Also look at Faris Al-Saltan, his turn over rate is in the low 70’s (right foot strikes per minute) and while he didn’t have a great run this year at Kona (3:05) he has run very well there in the past.

PS. you might appear more professional if you at least spell Triathlon right in your signature line (Triatlon?)

7

Garmin Connect now has a “running dynamics” section that estimates stride length and doubles the single foot spm:

http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz298/rowanjones78/GarminConnect_zps13267d69.png

There is also some sort of analysis in the graph with various colored dots, but I haven’t looked into that yet.

8

Good posture leads to a higher cadence. I do lots of testing on the treadmill. For some people, I can increase their cadence by making them tuck their chin in. Works like magic. I am never so concerned about cadence. I am always more concerned with posture, hip alignment and drive. I view cadence as more of an effect than a cause. Fix posture and alignment and have people run relaxed and cadence will take care of itself.

9

Good posture leads to a higher cadence. I do lots of testing on the treadmill. For some people, I can increase their cadence by making them tuck their chin in. Works like magic. I am never so concerned about cadence. I am always more concerned with posture, hip alignment and drive. I view cadence as more of an effect than a cause. Fix posture and alignment and have people run relaxed and cadence will take care of itself.

For whatever reason I’ve seen the reverse as well – increasing cadence improves posture. 180 requires smoothness. It is much easier to keep poor posture and mechanics at say 160 than 180.

10

Optimal for whom?
I think I read optimal for us. Being due to the elasticity of tendons, and ground contact time, and scientificy things like that. But I’ve been know to be wrong.

11

Keep in mind too that cadence may vary somewhat with you pace and height. I’ve been paying attenton to this more lately and I noticed that at 5’11", above 6:30 I probably go over 180, and from 6:30-7:30 I’m right around 170-180 and below 7:30 I may drop a little lower.

Improving form for is like improving your fit and aero on the bike , expect good runing form also reduces injury as well. Its’ free speed without improving fitness.

12

Just out of curiosity did you find Rinnie’s average cadence? No disrespect to Van Lierde but I’m actually more impressed by her marathon this year.

13

Not trying to hijack this thread but I wanted to quickly say that I received your message motoguy128 but SW will not let me send a private message (maybe because I’m new?) I did try to respond. If the site allows me to send PM’s in the future I will write you. Thanks for your message.

14

Best thing i ever did was make a playlist of songs that are 180bpm. I just run to it. I don’t need drills, need to count my steps, or watch a number on my watch. I just run to the music.
Made a huge difference for me. When I see ‘lopers’ out there, they just look like ‘beginners’ to me. People who don’t really know how to run.

I run at 180 steps/min regardless of if I’m running a 10min/mi or a 6 min/mi.

anyway. n=1. that’s what works for me.

15

Best thing i ever did was make a playlist of songs that are 180bpm. I just run to it. I don’t need drills, need to count my steps, or watch a number on my watch. I just run to the music.
Made a huge difference for me. When I see ‘lopers’ out there, they just look like ‘beginners’ to me. People who don’t really know how to run.

I run at 180 steps/min regardless of if I’m running a 10min/mi or a 6 min/mi.

anyway. n=1. that’s what works for me.

Similar to me, though I actually downloaded a metronome mp3 and play it at the start of my runs. It lasts 4 minutes and gets me into the rhythm. My speed doesn’t matter, foot turn over is the same.

16

I question this. Yes, people running really fast have a high cadence. Do you think they have the cadence at their recovery pace, I would think not. Notice in your post Kipsang has a cadence 5% faster than Van Lierde, that seems relevant, since Kipsang was running faster. I do not see any proof that 180 is some magic number, just that really fast people seem to be close to it, but another explanation is that cadence increases as speed increases. I think it makes more sense that as you run faster, your cadence increases, maybe not linearly. I believe someone even did this for the olympic 10k, the runners cadence was directly related to their speed at that portion of the race.

Obviously for people that are overstriding, increasing the cadence is a way for them to shorten their stride and fix a flaw. But, that is to correct a flaw, not because the higher cadence is better, just that shorter strides are better.

Also what does glute strength and core strength have to do with this?

Running Speed = stride length (push off force) x RPM
Biking Power = crank torque x RPM

In both cases as either Running speed goes up or Biking Power goes up, we do it by gradually increasing both. That’s just the way the human body works.

100m sprinters run at 4.1 to 4.7 strides per second. Around ~4.1 strides per second is Usein Bolt ~4.6 stride per second is Johan Blake. These guys are basicallly running at 120-140 RPM. Bolt just has more stride length than Blake.

This is the extreme over sub 10 second. As a point of reference, the top bike sprinters are sprinting at 115-125 RPM too (guys like Cavendish), so it is not far off the range of the top 100m sprinters (they just don’t need to go as high because they are not limited by limb length…they can apply crank torque through gearing benefits).

If you were to race RAAM or jog just above walking pace it would be crazy to spin your legs around at 90 RPM…that’s a lot of movement of heavy limbs to go slow. It still takes energy to move your heavy limbs around, and pointless to do the same amount of lifting work per stride when your crank torque is low, or your push off force is low.

Dev

17

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24002340/?i=3&from=rearfoot+strike don’t know if you saw this not 100% relevant to the conversation but interesting anyway.

As velocity increases stride length increases at a faster rate then stride rate.

I’d suggest that the book isn’t finished on 180 being the optimal rate that was observed by Daniels during the Olympics. The fact that Wilson had a higher rate and longer stride is telling. Maybe we should all strive to be at 188 instead? Or maybe as velocity increases we should be increasing stride rate even more?

At the velocity most people run an IM maybe 174 for a stride rate is more economical?

18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6ii1YRFwns

This is how I party.

19

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24002340/?i=3&from=rearfoot+strike don’t know if you saw this not 100% relevant to the conversation but interesting anyway.

As velocity increases stride length increases at a faster rate then stride rate.

I’d suggest that the book isn’t finished on 180 being the optimal rate that was observed by Daniels during the Olympics. The fact that Wilson had a higher rate and longer stride is telling. Maybe we should all strive to be at 188 instead? Or maybe as velocity increases we should be increasing stride rate even more?

At the velocity most people run an IM maybe 174 for a stride rate is more economical?

Looking at my own cadence data I would have to agree with that. Basically I’m now trying to use my foot pod to get into a sweetspot, but I’m having trouble convincing myself, it’s really that fast. Time will tell as I get more miles on.

20

Before you go ahead and buy a metronome, check out this little site http://metronomer.com/ You generate a click track and download it as an MP3. Your iPod is your metronome.