Below is the data from my 70.3 last weekend, which is only my 3rd 70.3, so I’m kinda new. New to using power as well (favero duo).
I feel very vulnerable posting this, but the hope is to get faster. I know position is just about the most important thing. I’m not sure how good or bad my position is. Also, not sure that the action pics I have are the best for others to see but I’ll include them in a link below anyway.
I assume that increasing my wattage will help, but what is best way? More mileage? Bigger gear? Training more in bigger gear? More time near threshold?
Bike/wheels: Cervelo P2, Hed Jet 6+ with rear aerojacket, 25 mm Conti 5000, latex, 85-90 psi
6 Misc: 9-14 mph wind (head and cross mostly), 1500 ft gain, some rough roads and tight turns, cool temps, average cadence 8
I assume that increasing my wattage will help, but what is best way? More mileage? Bigger gear? Training more in bigger gear? More time near threshold?
Depends. Probably. Probably not. Probably not. Depends on less time near what.
The choices depends on how much you want to invest into studying physiology and experimenting with what works for you
On one end, you get a coach (or subscribe to a training platform such as TrainerRoad) which does most of the work for you. YMMV depending on the coach, but a great coach should be able to do most of the heavy lifting while explaining why they are prescribing the regimen they do.
On the other end, you do your own research. A generally good book is the “Training and Racing with a Power Meter” which can introduce you to the philosophy of sports physiology and stress response. But you’ll soon find that the community can be pretty divided on the ideal way to train (likely because the ideal differs somewhat person to person, but also peoples’ personal perception and results biases them). And it is actually pretty difficult finding “truth”. Do realize though that the arguments are typically which program is best, among ones which are good. So even if you’ve picked a “good” structured workout that isn’t the “best”, you’ll still end up stronger.
All things being equal, yes more watts = faster on bike.
All things includes position, gear, weather, course.
As for how to improve your power, without knowing your history, how you’ve been training, what kind of time you want to dedicate to it, it is difficult to give any kind of advice other than, “train better” which I know is unhelpful. The most basic generalized thing I can say is spend a little time riding really hard. Spend a lot of time riding easy. Coaching can help. Personal education can help.
As for gear and position - it’s hard to say too much from those photos, but your arms look a bit awkward there, maybe there is some better stability and comfort to be had by some adjustments - would love to see torso-upper arm angle. Narrower pad width has a possibility to improve CdA. Slightly higher hands may improve stability and comfort and maybe aero too. I like to rotate the ends of my extensions toward each other a bit to bring the hands closer together. Hard to see angles well, but it looks like maybe you can get lower and more aero, as long as you do not compromise hip angles, etc, but it’s not a given and it could make things worse. You might be low enough. I’d need a better photo. Get a good aero helmet.
Thanks Ed. I trained by following a stock plan for all 3 events, although I modified it the 2nd time due to an injury that prevented me from running for multiple weeks. I wanted to follow it religiously just to see how I performed using it and not modify it so it gets all of the credit or the blame. While I am thrilled with how I’ve done overall (had 11th best bike split/10th best in the run in my age group).
Yet, I know there are things that I want to do differently from this plan which may be smart or stupid. My idea before starting up formally again before my next race was to do almost exactly what you said. Lots of volume and ride with a group of riders near me all of whom will push me and also plenty of time just getting zone 2 miles.
Part of the reason I ask the question is that I wasn’t exactly sure how much it mattered (even though I know power matters) because I look at the profiles of other racers and their power is substantially higher than mine but their mph over same course/same day is not. (0.5-1.25 mph - maybe thats substantial I dont know) but maybe that says more about all of those other factors and not as much about their power. (none of them substantially heavier than me either)
Sure thing. Comparing your power/speed to other racers is tricky. They have different positions, equipment, weight, bike handling skills, application of power vs terrain…
I’m actually in a similar position as you and have similar questions. Last race my NP was 210w and my average speed was 23mph.
What I want to know is what is needed to get closer to 25mph (all else being equal). Obviously you can’t only compare power but most other riders I see doing upwards of 25mph are putting out power between 250 and 300w
Something that I struggle with is maintaining power whilst also controlling the bike. I can hold 240-250w pretty comfortably when my bike is on the trainer, but when I take it outside I find to hard to really push and also focus on not crashing. I guess this just takes practice
Lots of volume and ride with a group of riders near me all of whom will push me and also plenty of time just getting zone 2 miles.
If you have time, lots of hours at a modest pace will be your “cake”. The addition of intervals in the FTP+ to VO2 range will be the “icing” (sparingly, generally once a week or so for race prep).
Riding with a group that pushes you probably isn’t the best thing to do on a regular basis… not if you are focused on Tri.
Lots of volume and ride with a group of riders near me all of whom will push me and also plenty of time just getting zone 2 miles.
If you have time, lots of hours at a modest pace will be your “cake”. The addition of intervals in the FTP+ to VO2 range will be the “icing” (sparingly, generally once a week or so for race prep).
Riding with a group that pushes you probably isn’t the best thing to do on a regular basis… not if you are focused on Tri.
Respectfully disagree. Although (underlining the respectfully) there is perhaps some caveats to that.
The main foundation for me is the all year round Saturday roadie club rides - 100-140km with 1000m to 2500m climbing. Then in the week the structured 1-2hour sessions on the trainer. Swap to the tt bike in the 3 months ahead of race day.
Now does this mean I am the fastest possible I could be on the bike? Not sure, but I am a c5:10hr IM and 2:05 HIM rider on non optimised kit. For me the mental variety that comes from that consistent saturday ride and having people around to push you that little harder on the races to the top of climb, but then also the ability to sit on the front of the group on the flat holding HIM pace power for 5/10mins means I get a great physical workout without mental fatigue.
The challenge was learning to then not race that hard - ie ride conservative and so run well. My Saturday rides would always be above 250wNP. HIM pace is 260w, 230w IM race pace.
Been following this thread, I am very curious about the big discrepancy between your IM and 70.3 bike times. Seems to me someone who can go 2:05 should absolutely be sub 5 on an IM.
Any particular reason for the gap?
HIM is a pan flat course essentially along the coast so with decent side wind to get max benefit from deep wheel sail effect. Road condition not too bad as much asphalt and not too much chip seal.
IMNZ bike course isn’t a mountain, but enough decent hills to have an effect, especially as I descend like a nanna. Also the road is horrendous chip seal and I’m on an ancient bike that can only fit 23mm tyres (even then I’ve had a stone stick to the tyre and jam in the frame, thankfully not in a race). Also the goal isn’t to win the bike leg, it’s to get to the start of the run feeling fairly fresh. 15mins saved on the bike could easily cost an hour or more on the run. 260w down to 230w is the more important thing - I’ve faith in my coach on that delta. The time then is what it is from that. Discussion with a few suggests a bike swap would get me that 15mins, but there’s a certain comfort in taking the exact same bike into transition for a decade, as it would have been if there had been a race this year.
Part of the reason I ask the question is that I wasn’t exactly sure how much it mattered (even though I know power matters) because I look at the profiles of other racers and their power is substantially higher than mine but their mph over same course/same day is not. (0.5-1.25 mph - maybe thats substantial I dont know) but maybe that says more about all of those other factors and not as much about their power. (none of them substantially heavier than me either)
Anyhow, thanks all for your insights.
If you reverse engineer your watts/speed, making a few assumptions, your CDA is probably a bit above average. There is easily speed to gather here. A lot of people really stink here despite spending big bucks.
If you look at that 190w average, that’s pretty ordinary. There is definitely speed to be gather there.
So you’re probably a 6 on 10 aero wise and 5 on 10 power wise.
Work both. Move along both the x and y axis of Robert’s chart. Currently you are in the middle along the X axis and bottom fifth on the Y axis
The main foundation for me is the all year round Saturday roadie club rides - 100-140km with 1000m to 2500m climbing. Then in the week the structured 1-2hour sessions on the trainer. Swap to the tt bike in the 3 months ahead of race day.
When you swap to the TT bike for 3 months ahead of race day, does that mean you quit the Sat group rides? If so, then I think that’s totally fine. I’ve had long periods where I did 4 group road “races” per week (when I was young), but leading up to a TT or Tri, it’s best to focus on that effort. 6 weeks of prep seems to be enough for me.
The main foundation for me is the all year round Saturday roadie club rides - 100-140km with 1000m to 2500m climbing. Then in the week the structured 1-2hour sessions on the trainer. Swap to the tt bike in the 3 months ahead of race day.
When you swap to the TT bike for 3 months ahead of race day, does that mean you quit the Sat group rides? If so, then I think that’s totally fine. I’ve had long periods where I did 4 group road “races” per week (when I was young), but leading up to a TT or Tri, it’s best to focus on that effort. 6 weeks of prep seems to be enough for me.
Mostly. Probably still do one Saturday a month, or do the Saturday ride and then go long on TT midweek.
I do this whole thing for fun not professionally, so if it gets too serious and becomes a chore then I’m failing.
