What is the best way to incorporate a strength training regimen with respect to other training sessions? I do Olympic distance and bike 3-4 times per week (1-2 with intervals/higher intensity) and run 2-3 times per week (1 with intervals/higher intensity). Not currently swimming but when I start back up I will be doing 3 short swims per week.
Lifts the day of, before, or after intensity?
I would do some more swim, bike, or running.
I would do some more swim, bike, or running.
Not helpful with regard to answering my question, but thanks
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I treat it like a brick session after a shorter bike or run workout.
It doesn’t have to be long, 10-15 minutes is plenty of time to get in some compound strength training exercises for durability.
I think if you start doing it, you’ll enjoy it and may end up spending more time on it though.
If you dig through some of the TrainerRoad stuff (their blog and podcast) they cover the topic fairly well. It’s mostly aimed for just cyclists, but you could apply the principles to triathlon training
So layout your week, pick a day (or days) in which you are doing intervals/intensity in the morning and then plug a weight lifting session that afternoon/evening (provided the following day is a rest day)
If you dig through some of the TrainerRoad stuff (their blog and podcast) they cover the topic fairly well. It’s mostly aimed for just cyclists, but you could apply the principles to triathlon training
So layout your week, pick a day (or days) in which you are doing intervals/intensity in the morning and then plug a weight lifting session that afternoon/evening (provided the following day is a rest day)
Not a bad post IMO 
Actually similar to what I have been doing since picking up cycling in 2004 coming from a long career in strength training, competition and training others. My week is arranged a little differently (almost backward in terms of morning/evening and I am a primarily a strength guy that enjoys cycling), but has a similar concept. Because I am a cyclist only most of my strength training does not interfere with cycling and yet my leg day can and does have an impact on cycling training can be unpredictable at times. Through trial and error I have found (in the schedule link below) a path that helps me the most juggle the training load between the two and I attempt to be progressive in training both strength and cycling year round. Logistically it is easier for me to go to a 24/7 gym at 4:30 AM in the path of my commute to work. I am glad that I am not also trying to juggle running and swimming in this mix. Seems like a lot to manage in training load while being progressive, but perhaps it can be done.
My goals are far different than the majority on ST and for the typical cyclist. Here is my schedule. Another helpful factor because I am not a true endurance athlete is that I eat a lot of calories and fairly muscular even at 56. If I were training on restricted calories I can imagine that age + training + low calories (watts/kg factor) would make it even more difficult for recovery time.
To the OP - A lot of ways to skin the cat and so many individual goals and preferences that it is hard to give solid advice without specific coaching. The highlighted portion of the post above from Chemist is a decent starting point always with the view of** what you do and how will that impact recovery and other training goals**. Even for me with a number of years in both aspects now it is a tough one. Last Monday morning I evidently had a better leg day that I had imagined. DOMS started setting in within a few hours after training legs. The active recovery spin on Monday evening helps alleviate that DOMS to some degree most of the time (~7 out of 10 times). By Tuesday my legs were extremely sore, but was still able to grit through intervals the next few days. There is more to the method of my madness (why things are arranged the way they are) than described in this short response.
Edit: just a note that I am actually very pro sport specific in training philosophy. In my competitive days I only focused on exactly what it took to gain strength and I am pretty sure that I would have not been as successful if I had thrown in other training or activities in the mix. By being focused purely on strength it allowed me to put 100% of my energy and recovery toward the one goal. By observance it appears that countless cyclists, runners, triathletes, etc have been on the podium without a single day or thought toward adding in strength training. Just an opinion that I thought I should add so that my post above does not seem as if I think strength training is a prerequisite for being successful triathlete.
i’m only on year 3 of pretty consistent winter weight training, so take my 2 cents as maybe only 1.5 cents worth.
Because i think the May-Sept benefits of weight training are very worth it - i prioritize the weight workout above any Vo2 work or even threshold work (im also 52 and have been riding a lot since about 21). this essentially means i rarely do ANY planned vo2, thresh work until March (that typed group rides happen, trying to hold the wheel happens, a tempting segment of fulgaz video happens). i do concentrate on what i think are neuromuscular adaptations on the bike - lots of high cadence intervals and lots of 130-160 rpm 500 watt 30 second uphill seated spin sprints.
this means i plan my week based on weight sessions first – i want to start the weight sessions with somewhat not fatigued legs so i can gradually up the weight in the exercises.
on the flip side - April-Oct i prioritize the on the bike adaptations and do lift after my hardest riding is behind me and before i plan some recovery for the next hard ride.
as felt rider said - its a constant work in progress because the break through weight workout (or even the break through ride workout) necessitates so much recovery at 52 that i have to add some unexpected recovery from time to time
a question in case starting a new thread isnt necessary - if adaptation (long term gain) from a workout (usually weights) is the goal - are there recovery (short term gain such that one can do the next hard workout sooner) methods that stunt the adaptations? recovery boots? fish oil supplement? sport legs buffering supplements? thanks for any help, sincerely, rick
a question in case starting a new thread isnt necessary - if adaptation (long term gain) from a workout (usually weights) is the goal - are there recovery (short term gain such that one can do the next hard workout sooner) methods that stunt the adaptations? recovery boots? fish oil supplement? sport legs buffering supplements? thanks for any help, sincerely, rick
Great question Rick and one that I am constantly trying to figure out. In my own schedule I cannot say that I have found that magical path, but I now have quite a few year of experience. Being that I am no longer a competitor allows me to experiment without negative impact to a competition goal. What I have observed though is timing of nutrition, use of and placement of active recovery and I have tried other things as well, such as, I purchased the Compex Sports Elite in 2016 to see it would help. By no mean an endorsement and I rarely use it to be honest. Mainly because the amount of time it takes to get set up. I feel as if the active recovery spin the evening of leg day seems to be as effective as the electric stimulation massage. I also like these light spins for the times when I am injured from lifting like recently Here. (Oh yes 
true strength training comes with a risk). I tried sports leg buffering supplements with no observed improvement. I have never tried recovery boots. I think because I have a few tight compression sleeves that seems to do little I have not been willing to take the financial risk of getting more things. Although I like the Compex I now wished I would have saved my money. The two things below have been the most beneficial to me.
Protein / Amino Acids stacked up immediately after training and spaced out at regular timed intervals following. I have noticed worse conditions when I did not follow this routine. At times actually getting sick potentially from having a lowered immune from training hard and not replenishing after training. No evidence just times of observance and timing of the illness coming on.Active recovery seems to help compared to when I skipped. It does not prevent DOMS, but it seems to help shorten the amount of days and the intensity compared to not doing it.
Also when I say DOMS it is not always perceived when just sitting around or walking, but as soon as I get to the top of L3 or higher for intervals it becomes a tremendous mental battle of blocking out the discomfort when those intervals can be discomforting even when fully recovered. I becomes evident to me that the legs are in the process of recovering from a decent leg day.
I’d be really interested in what people on the very pointy end of racing are doing. People who are in the top 1-3% of their AG at races. Some will argue it’s just genetics for them, but I’m curious if they are actually doing multiple 1 hr weight lifting sessions at a gym through out the offseason.
Recently I’ve added in some strength/flexibility sessions that I’m doing daily into my routine. All of it is done with body resistance and such and it’s more to address imbalances and tightness i’ve felt than build muscle. Its pretty easy to take a 10-15 minutes break beside my desk and go through these throughout the day.
IMO, if you are looking to get faster and have extra time on your hands, it’s usually better spent swimming/biking/running as someone pointed out. The strength stuff should be looked at as something to address imbalances and injury prevention than a way to get faster instead of swimming/biking/running.
IMO - you will be fine in terms of recovery and what you are doing should not have a negative impact on your primary training. These discussions always seem to go sideways because just about everyone has a personal definition of what they think is strength training. Mine is based on 1RM of a lift and is in line with what is termed “strength training” because one is always working to improve that 1RM. Bodyweight resistance does not fluctuate a whole lot so you are not actually gaining extra strength in that clinical term, but yet gives you enough strength to perform daily tasks. Certainly a decent thing as are many other forms of resistance training that are not necessarily strength training based on 1RM. Core training can be done daily because the involved muscle groups can recover quickly. So when I see these threads progress and we see a lot of things thrown into the discussion it gets pretty muddy both in terms of personal philosophy and science. True strength training can have a lot of impact on CNS as well called CNS Fatigue. That fatigue can be worse than muscular recovery. One reason I only load my legs once a week and even in my prime did a heavy/light routine that is often practiced by powerlifters. I did a post on this last year. I don’t expect everyone to agree. Even among world class lifters that I used to train with had different views on this subject just as not all triathletes agree.
For what I see most people post on here for what they feel is strength training probably can be thrown into their day, have benefit, not really have an impact on the primary training and can be thrown in a time crunched day like you are doing. Keep up the good work.
More on CNS fatigue for those interested.
That is a really well-written post and I’m in agreement with you.
So much lovely bad advice!
Try to pair your weight training within 12 hours of your intervals & preceding a rest/easy day. Ideally, you’ll do your cycling first, but if you can’t, just know that your riding will suffer since you’re training on pre-exhausted legs. most track sprinters like to combine a heavy lift with an apres lift bike workout, to combine the hypertrophy effects of lifting with the coordination specificity of cycling. If you’re not lifting heavy then who really cares when you lift, as it’s more of a (still worthwhile!) preventative care routine.
Try to adhere to an on/off schedule by following hard days with easy ones. or you could cycle your workouts intelligently and not spend 50% of your time not training.
Try not to block your training. It’s typically far better to train then recover, train then recover, than to train & train then recover. Blocks can be productive, but they’re risky and best left for particular times of the year, and often enough, more advanced riders. again, most advanced athletes spend less than 50% of their time on recovery and cycle training modalities effectively.
YMMV but my preference is to make “hard” days truly hard and “easy” days truly easy, so weight train on same days as workouts rather than on an “easy” day.
Lifts the day of, before, or after intensity?
Thursday
I was talking to someone at work about Thursdays
See, we’re off every other Friday, so we call the Thursdays on those weeks “Fake Friday” “Faux Friday” or, sometimes, “Thriday”
I said that in my experience, Thursday has always been the best night of the week for me. When I was in the band I loved playing Thursday night shows. The people who came out were either a) ready to party and wanted to start the weekend as soon as possible, especially when we played shows at Penn or Drexel, and they were off from classes the next day, or b) just so fucking tired of that week’s bullshit, they just wanted to get loose, forget about everything, and if they were still fucked up or hungover on Friday? Well, fuck it
Moving forward, post-music career, Thursday became the night I usually put maximum efforts into workouts; often doubling or tripling up. When I was a actively doing triathlon, Thursdays would be brick night with bike/run or bike/swim workouts. I would do speedwork on Thursdays if I was in that mode, so I could really thrash and have a couple days recovery before Sunday’s long run
Nowadays, I go to the gym, set the TM a couple clicks higher than I would go on the road, spin that for half an hour or so to get the engine revved nice & hot, then hit the weights for 45 to an hour
The advice comes from Chad Timmerman who is the head coach at TrainerRoad. If you listen to their weekly podcast you’ll know who is well read when it comes to training and research on sports performance.
Steve Magness and Jon Marcus (former top level runners and now coaches) have echoed similar strategy on their coaching podcast. Combine lifting on your interval day. Then follow with an easy day to allow for recovery and adaptation.
And for the specific timing of lifting and an interval workout. I think it can depend on two things: time, and the ability to complete the lifts safely. A lot of people don’t have time to stack workouts together before they work so they get separated. Second, if you are coming off a hard bike, gotta make sure you can still maintain good form on lifts so you don’t F something up
As for your comment about spending 50% of your time not training. You do realize recovery does not mean not training, right? Hard day (ie intervals, speed work, long run or bike) then easier day (swim, medium run, lower intensity bike, etc). Trying to go hard with intervals multiple days in a row is a recipe for disaster for endurance athletes.
I do two 1-hour sessions with a trainer per week, often after a swim or a run. I mostly do Oly races and believe I am competitive within my AG. I don’t think strength training necessarily makes me faster. But I’m totally convinced it wards off injury. S/B/R exercises only certain muscle groups and ignores others. Lifting strengthens the surrounding muscles and thereby prevents injury. I usually stop lifting 1 to 2 weeks before any A races to avoid fatigue. But it’s also true that I lift because I enjoy it.
the why strength training -
– for me – a - to build a reserve of anaerobic muscle that i can utilize in the last 20 minutes of a long ride/race. in the last 2 years after pretty solid winters of lifting i sense i have a 95% chance of uncorking very high end 30-60 second efforts at the end of a hard 3 hr ride. in the 10 years before these last 3, that chance of having anything left was getting lower and lower. i am NOT a triathlete and a long ride/race is usually 3 hours out to 5-6 max. i highly doubt i’d see as much value to my anaerobic ability as the event becomes longer and longer.
i think i can only get this with building up to pretty heavy weights (few reps). this also means (for me) lots of doms . this also means it impacts the riding within a 48 hr window (sometimes more)
– b – injury prevention // better at life (yard work less likely to hobble me - that kind of stuff). this means to me lighter weights, more reps, less impact on riding hard.
i dont know if that helps. i don’t love that for me to get -a- means i have to sacrifice months of 90% plus riding hard. i do love finishing off rides with a bunch of kick for that window in the summer. i do think i’ll concentrate much more on b as i continue to get older. sincerely, rick
I appreciate everyone’s input. My understanding is that we all lose strength as we age and some of this can be mitigated through strength training. Some exercises can help build stabilizing/core muscles which I think I can benefit from.
I think that it is easier to integrate strength training now during the off-season.
Thank you