Improve VO2Max

Triathlon Forum
1

Hello All,

I will appreciate your advice on that:

According to a study I was shown, when one wants to improve VO2Max, sets of intervals in which one goes above 90% of his HRMax is the better way, while an interpretation suggests that the key thing is the total time one manages to stay at such above-90%-of-HRMax.

I personally, when doing such intervals, say of 2 minutes duration each, get above my 90% in the second minute, so for example, if I’d do a set of 6 of them, I’d ‘collect’ 6 minutes above 90% HRmax.
While - - - in some 2 hours rides, the aggregated time above 90% HRMax is 15-20 minutes, which in no way I can reach by intervals.

I wonder what is better / more effective for improving VO2Max - those intervals ? or such a ride ? (any additional value to short all-out intervals ? )

Thanks a lot ! :slight_smile:

2

Im certainly no expert in the field, but I have read some place that it is also important to maintain the training-intensity for some time after reaching your VO2MAX - meaning that intervalls ranging from 4-6 min would be better than repeats of 2 min. I believe the 4x4min-type intervalls are targeted at VO2Max for the reason stated

3

Thank you **lovegoat **

Question remains the same with regard to 4*4. in such a set I may have a total time of no more than 10 minutes above 90% HRMax (while in certain rides it is 15-20 min above 90%)

4

hmmm, going slightly off topic, but in a 40 k tt I may spend 45min above 90%(that assumes my max HR has not dropped in the last 23 years)
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5

I think the difference between intervalls and a long ride would be that in a long ride your high HR (time above 90%) would be just as much a result of accumulated fatigue/oxygen deficit, as work at “VO2MAX” intensity. I also think that during intervals you will have more time continuously in the right intensity-range, while in a long ride you will pop over at Vo2max-intensity very often, but for a short duration at a time. Bottom line - I would favor intervalls - but I would love if someone with real knowledge on the issue would enlighten me/us :slight_smile:

As a side-note: I use a power-meter and find that very usefull for those short intervalls. Without a PM it’s easier to go out to hard and fall back. In that case, my HR would be high the entire intervall, but I would only be working av Vo2Max-power for a short while at the start of the intervall.

6

10+ minutes in a raw, during a 2 hrs ride
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7

Jeffp, 2-3 years ago I had a 40 km tt in which the total ride avg. HR was my 90%… :slight_smile: that does not happen any more

8

I still think that the bottom line would be that HR above 90 % does not automatically mean you are working at V02MAX-power. In lack of personal knowledge I’ll post a link to someone elses thoughts on the matter:)

http://www.hunterallenpowerblog.com/2014/04/what-to-do-next-v02max-intensive-plan.html

9

Hunter Allen knows a thing or two :slight_smile:
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10

That V02 max plan that Hunter outlines seems like a massive recipe for disaster for the average age grouper…and probably impossible after a few weeks of heavy run + swim volume if you actually plan on hitting the wattages he outlines… I think that plan would be ok for a well seasoned cyclist who already does 15+ hours a week of cycling (as the article suggests)…But If I was running 40-50 miles a week and swimming 12k meters a week there’s no way I could hit those intervals throughout the week before regression kicks in.

11

Read this thread closely.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=1325916#1325916

12

Thanks Nick B
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13

Vo2 Max is roughly anything from 3-8min of effort. But you can’t look at HR, as it can take 2-4min to truly reach it’s spot. The goal is to go FULL GAS for the duration of an interval. You should be able to go harder for 3 minutes than 6 minutes.

Use RPE for this over HR. If you’re jacked up on caffeine, or haven’t slept well or are rested, HR response can be extremely variable.

14

Thank you chrica04 !

All replies are Appreciated.
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15

If you can’t do back to back VO2max sessions on a bike, or maybe do not have an adequate base of training (miles and miles and miles of cycling), you can also consider PM/AM or even AM/PM Brick based VO2max sessions of different disciplines.

As we all know, going out and running a 5k, 10k, half marathon or longer on rested legs is a lot different than trying to do it off a bike. So people incorporate brick workouts where they do a ride/run back to back. Agreed these are great for getting used to how your legs will feel and understanding the importance of your leg turnover when trying to run through your bike legs.

I like doing VO2max work as a brick, with a little bit more rest in between.

Trying doing your run workouts (tempo run, 5k race, track workout, etc) on the morning after a bike VO2max session the night before.

Example:
Monday PM - Bike Workout, 2 hr ride (15 min warmup, 45 min ~65-70% of FTP, main set of intervals w/ 15min or more of total interval time and equivalent rest, 15 min at 70% of FTP, 15 min cooldown).

Tuesday AM - Track Workout (6+ total miles of running - 1.5 to 2.5 mi warmup, 2.5 to 3 mi of intervals 5x800m repeats or similar, 1.5mi cooldown)

I like being able to get out on the track and open it up after already gassing the legs from the bike workout 8 hrs earlier.

Have to find what works best for you…keep a training log of all the data (HR, times, how you felt, etc) so every few months you can look back and adjust your workouts if you aren’t getting the results you expected.

16

Though I appreciate the information, I hate threads like that and I am glad that threads like that are less common than they used to be. Andrew had a specific and clear intention with his post, but it took 70/80 replies for him to get to it.

17

Why are you worring about HR if you have a PM? By the time HR catches up you’re well into effort.

I do 4x4 min or 6x 3 at 115% of FTP power to improve vo2 max. Def longer than 2 minutes and without worrying about HR.

Btw, 90% is way too easy for vo2x. I can ride at 90% for 90 minutes or more.

18

Any effort (sets of 30-60s with equal rest, or 3-8 minutes straight) where your legs burn, you cant really find a good cadence, your breathing is heavy and deep and you want it to be over by halfway is at vo2max. It’s easiest to fint the right intensity with a power meter, after that RPE, after that heart rate. For me, i’m not guaranteed to reach 90% HR on these efforts since they are simply too short. Over a few intervals I probably will, but if I would have paced with HR I would have overdone the first few, and likely not keep a high enough power on the last few. The idea that heart rate follows oxygen consumption accurately goes out of the window when you have trained by power for a few years.

19

Why are you worring about HR if you have a PM? By the time HR catches up your well into effort.

I do 4x4 min 6x 3 at 115% of FTP power to improve vo2 max. Def longer than 2 minutes and without worrying about HR.

Btw, 90% is way too easy for vo2x. I can ride at 90% for 90 minutes or more.

Hey Carl. I did a 6x3 interval workout on Wednesday. I gave myself 5 minutes rest between each set, figuring rest was good so I could push the watts. What type of rest period do you use?

20

I try to do equal work/rest but if it’s the 3rd interval of 6x3 and I’m cracking, I’ll take the time to get composed and start over. Ideally it’s knocking them all out in one set but some days it doesn’t happen.