Improve Swimming Pace

Triathlon Forum
1

Hello,
I’m a mid-20s female who was a very mediocre club swimmer growing up (best 100yd free time ~:58). I swam on and off during college but now I’m trying to get back into it and be more consistent. However, I have been back in the pool for almost a year and after a few months of regaining fitness, my send-offs have now stopped improving. I am training about 3-4 days a week and going ~4000 yards per practice. For about 6 months I’ve been able to do 12-20 100yds freestyle on 1:30 (holding 1:20-1:22), but I can’t seem to decrease my interval any further. I’m planning to bring my interval down to 100yd repeats on 1:15-1:20 over the next year. Hoping for advice from some experienced fellow swimmers/swammers.

Some details:

  • I consistently swim tight interval repeats with :10-:15 secs rest
  • About 70% of my swimming is freestyle as I am training for triathlon/open water events.
  • I incorporate a fair amount of pulling into my sets.
  • I do both longer swims of 100-300yd repeats as well as short pace work (25-50s) on a slightly longer rest interval
  • I have tried some USRPT type sets to increase stroke rate and speed, but it hasn’t helped improve my send-off.
  • I would say my technique is not the limiting factor. I occasionally swim with a local master’s swim club and the coaches say it looks just fine.
  • I have a slight hunch that the issue is volume (need to swim more days per week/ more yards). Thoughts on this?

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

2

You sound like you have a diesel motor in the pool, many do. If I were you, I would start to do main sets of 100’s on the 1;40, or even slower. Use the interval that nets you 1;15 to 1;17’s for your split times. You are similar to my training partner in that he almost always focuses on shortening the intervals, rather than speeding up the swims.

Once you can achieve the actual swim times you will need to lower your interval, then you can start to think about 1;25 base as the next stop. You said 1;15 to 1;20, but you are skipping a step in there, and with your background, probably best to just drop 5 seconds at a time. And you can start with perhaps just 6x100 on the new interval, and then work it up as you progress. But more rest and faster speeds is the way to get there, and 12k+ a week should be enough if done right.

But you are right in that if you up the mileage at the same time, it will all happen faster than the 3 times a week you are on now…Do you do a lot of junk swimming in those 4k workouts?

3

Thank you for the advice! It is much appreciated. And I don’t think I’m doing a ton of garbage yardage, but of course people have different definitions of what that is. Aside from an easy swim/kick/drill (~1000yd) warmup, which usually has my heart rate in the ~145 range, I do very little slow swimming. I do a lot of 75s FR swim or pull on 1:10, with the goal of holding :59-1:00. I’ve also been experimenting with some speed work, such as 20x50s on :55, holding :35-:36. The 50s are especially tough for me and I do these in more of a usrpt format, so when I fail I usually rest for 1 rep. The 50s and 75s normally get my heart rate into the 165 - 175 range by the 5th repetition. For the last few repetitions my HR will often be up to the 180s.

4

Your 75’s are basically the same type of set as your 100’s on 1;30, a fraction faster. I like the 50’s set, but do them on a minute, also makes the sendoffs easier. That extra 5 seconds ought to keep you at 35’s for a bit longer. Now that is a different kind of set, do more of those. And it could be 100’s or 200’s even, just add more rest in accordingly. Goal is just to get used to swimming at a new pace for you, dont worry about how much rest it takes until you have achieved the goal pace for an extended set and workout.

5

Hello,
I’m a mid-20s female who was a very mediocre club swimmer growing up (best 100yd free time ~:58). I swam on and off during college but now I’m trying to get back into it and be more consistent. However, I have been back in the pool for almost a year and after a few months of regaining fitness, my send-offs have now stopped improving. I am training about 3-4 days a week and going ~4000 yards per practice. For about 6 months I’ve been able to do 12-20 100yds freestyle on 1:30 (holding 1:20-1:22), but I can’t seem to decrease my interval any further. I’m planning to bring my interval down to 100yd repeats on 1:15-1:20 over the next year. Hoping for advice from some experienced fellow swimmers/swammers.

Some details:

  • I consistently swim tight interval repeats with :10-:15 secs rest
  • About 70% of my swimming is freestyle as I am training for triathlon/open water events.
  • I incorporate a fair amount of pulling into my sets.
  • I do both longer swims of 100-300yd repeats as well as short pace work (25-50s) on a slightly longer rest interval
  • I have tried some USRPT type sets to increase stroke rate and speed, but it hasn’t helped improve my send-off.
  • I would say my technique is not the limiting factor. I occasionally swim with a local master’s swim club and the coaches say it looks just fine.
  • I have a slight hunch that the issue is volume (need to swim more days per week/ more yards). Thoughts on this?

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

I don’t really know yards, but with a 100y time of 58 I would expect you to be going quicker than your current time cycle, swimming 16k a week, especially as an ex-swimmer.

I was swimming around 1.26-1.28 on a 1.40 time cycle (metres not yards) when swimming solo with a coaches plan. I then joined a swim squad and although volume was the same, I dropped down to low 1.20s within a few months and then started getting 1.18/1.19s. And this improvement was due to a number of factors, swimming with others who push you helps, but I think it was primarily the structure of the swim sets. Very little use of toys and longer sets (up to 800m) that really helped build endurance.

I know people will disagree with me on this, but I’ve found toys can be used as a crutch, especially the PB. I never feel as gassed with the PB as I do with just freestyle. We will do 5000m, with virtually all the main set toy free. And afterwards I’m shagged.

Volume will obviously help, but as I said, you should be going quicker with the amount you are doing. I know you said coaches have said your technique is good, but have they done a video analysis? Do they know what’s going on under water, where all the important stuff happens? What is your 100y pb now? If it’s say 1.10, that would suggest you’re not pushing yourself when you’re doing 100s?

Something else we do in our squads is use swim by CSS. This is good for holding pace on the longer sets and stops you slacking off. You get a CSS time from doing a 400m and 200m TT, calculate the CSS and then you will do 200s, 400s+ on CSS+4 (for example) using a beeper (or your watch). This helps you hold pace and also makes sure you don’t get lazy.

6

Thank you for the advice! It is much appreciated. And I don’t think I’m doing a ton of garbage yardage, but of course people have different definitions of what that is. Aside from an easy swim/kick/drill (~1000yd) warmup, which usually has my heart rate in the ~145 range, I do very little slow swimming. I do a lot of 75s FR swim or pull on 1:10, with the goal of holding :59-1:00. I’ve also been experimenting with some speed work, such as 20x50s on :55, holding :35-:36. The 50s are especially tough for me and I do these in more of a usrpt format, so when I fail I usually rest for 1 rep. The 50s and 75s normally get my heart rate into the 165 - 175 range by the 5th repetition. For the last few repetitions my HR will often be up to the 180s.

Monty gave you great advice about making sure you’re actually swimming faster than your normal speed. Give it more rest to make sure you’re actually swimming fast enough.

On the flip side, you might benefit from doing some work that’s more supportive on the aerobic side. Based up what you’ve described, doing something like 100s on 1:35/1:40 and going 1:27-1:30 by help you build some more fitness that’s a little easier to recover from. Sometimes, if you constantly push up against the limits your ability, you actually get less from it than backing off a bit. This is especially true when you get stuck. This is still quality work, it’s just a little bit more aerobically focused. Keep it under control. Of course, you could apply the same principle to longer swims.

So do the faster work like you’ve mentioned to support the speed you’re trying to achieve, and do the slightly slower work to support the endurance side. They are complimentary, and by working both sides, you’re more likely to achieve your goal.

Spend some time working on going faster AND slower, then go back to the target set, and you’ll likely find that you’ve improved.

Hope that helps,

Andrew

7

My only comment is that with those swim times, you will be faster than at least 95% of the majority of age group male and female swimmers in triathlon.
Your competitors will probably love that you want to do more swimming if it comes at the expense of the disciplines you will spend the most time in during a triathlon (riding and running, in case anyone is wondering what I am getting at), as if a coach was to look at your “limiters” for success in triathlon, swimming most certainly won’t be one of them.
If you are concentrating on open water swimming then by all means, 3 times a week will not be enough…but for a general age grouper you are killing it and if you want to focus on triathlon more I would not focus as much on getting your swim much better than it already it (unless you plan on turning pro quickly!!)…

8

OP I am also very curious what could you do for an all-out 100y TT currently, to see how that compares to the 100’s you’re hitting during main sets.

And, for others posting on the thread, how far off 100y PR pace do most folks do their 100 repeats?

Hate to semi-hijack the thread but I see you’re getting some great responses here, and I think I am experiencing a similar thing and am probably of a similar fitness level (and also have similar goals!). I’ve been doing sets of 100’s coming in around 1:19-1:21 on 1:35-140 but if you asked me to hit a 1:15 for just one of those reps in a long set, I don’t think I could do it if my life depended on it. My best one-off 100 during a shorter workout is 1:13, but I’m guessing I could probably go around 1:10 currently, give or take, in a time trial. I did an all-out 50 from a push last weekend in 33.8, at the end of a fairly short workout.

I’m less confident my issue is a volume one and I think for me, it’s more of a pure power issue and probably largely technique as well, so I’m going to try to get some good underwater video and see what that looks like. And I’m going to take back some of the feedback from this thread to focus less on dropping the leave time and try to do a bunch of volume with more rest at a faster pace.

9

My only comment is that with those swim times, you will be faster than at least 95% of the majority of age group male and female swimmers in triathlon.
Your competitors will probably love that you want to do more swimming if it comes at the expense of the disciplines you will spend the most time in during a triathlon (riding and running, in case anyone is wondering what I am getting at), as if a coach was to look at your “limiters” for success in triathlon, swimming most certainly won’t be one of them.
If you are concentrating on open water swimming then by all means, 3 times a week will not be enough…but for a general age grouper you are killing it and if you want to focus on triathlon more I would not focus as much on getting your swim much better than it already it (unless you plan on turning pro quickly!!)…OTOH swimming is part of triathlon and people tend to underestimate how consistent swim training can help the bike and run, not mention their swim split. And given the low impact swimming has on the body, even intense training, it doesn’t have to cut into bike and run workouts. (I get that many of us are time crunched and have to carefully choose the disciplines we train most, but that’s a different topic). Motivation is always a factor in endurance sport and it reads like the OP wants to get faster in the pool. Changing workout content and adding more pool time sounds good to me.

10

Thank you for all your comments!

I am also curious as to how my repeat 100s compare to an all out effort. I am curious if any coaches out there have expectations for what their swimmers can hold based on their 100yd sprint times? I recently did a 100yd sprint at the end of practice in 1:10, from a push. I think if I was in a meet setting and there was a block involved I could probably hit a 1:05. I think it’s also relevant to mention that I grew up swimming for a very small, rural club team (think middle of nowhere), and we only had practice 3 days a week (and it was seasonal Sept-March). Even though I swam for them for 10 years, I never felt that I developed a good aerobic base and my times dropped off considerably for race distances above 100yds (when I managed to do 100yds in :58 my best 200 time was around a 2:10, and 500 at 6:00). Our coaches did not have any certifications and were previous high school swimmers, so this was definitely not a high quality swim club. As I became a senior swimmer I ended up mostly writing my own workouts. Given this, I don’t think it’s very surprising that my sprint times don’t translate well to my aerobic intervals. I’m very much a student of the sport, so I appreciate any advice that can help me build my aerobic base at this point in my life.

In terms of my training for triathlon, this is not my focus. I am training for a ~20 mile open water swim this summer and was only mentioning triathlon because I might do one on the side for fun. In all honesty, I don’t even bike right now and I only run about 2 times a week. I think for me it’s more about doing what I enjoy rather than focusing on racing and times. Still, that doesn’t stop me from wanting to improve.

11

I can’t give expert advice, but as a former very mediocre sprinter whose high school 100/200 times were :50 and 2:04 (my coach would advise me to say I got sick during a 200 rather than cop to that kind of outrageous positive split), I can say that swimming in a long course pool is pretty key for developing longer distance efficiency and strength. Flipping every 20 seconds or resting every 40 seconds just does not prepare me for open water swimming. A 500 in a scy pool is just like 20 short sprints, for me. Just my experience, but efficiency and what I take to be muscular endurance are huge problems for a swimmer like me, and your description of your swimming seemed a little similar.

Just an anecdote, hope it helps.

12

Thank you for all your comments!

I am also curious as to how my repeat 100s compare to an all out effort. I am curious if any coaches out there have expectations for what their swimmers can hold based on their 100yd sprint times? I recently did a 100yd sprint at the end of practice in 1:10, from a push.

I think your 1.20-1.22 on a 1.30 time cycle is about right then.

In terms of my training for triathlon, this is not my focus. I am training for a ~20 mile open water swim this summer and was only mentioning triathlon because I might do one on the side for fun. In all honesty, I don’t even bike right now and I only run about 2 times a week. I think for me it’s more about doing what I enjoy rather than focusing on racing and times. Still, that doesn’t stop me from wanting to improve.

Are you on a program for your 20 mile swim? What’s the swim? I just did the Rottnest channel swim and was swimming around 30-35km a week, biggest set was 10k (metres). CSS testing and using a tempo trainer will really help you especially with the longer sets.

When is the US changing to metres??

13

I will back up what Monte is saying. For people like you and I, we need to keep our strengths (holding a tough pace) and develop our weaknesses (flat out speed). As Monte says back off your intervals and go faster. My go to (don’t laugh) is 12x100scy on 2:05 - I call it a trip around the clock. This is almost full rest, but, you should be coming in between 66 to 75. The last few you’ll feel like the RI is too short!!! If swimming LCM it’s 12x100 on 2:10.

Additionally, I do a fair amount of: 150’s & 300’s w/ ~25 seconds rest, easy 50 (breast/back) then another ~25 seconds rest (this is active, and not quite complete rest) times for you should be 1:43 - 1:53 & 3:43 - 3: 53 respectively. These distances (amount of time swimming) work different energy systems.

Then as Slowman suggests doing 1,000 to perhaps 2,000 all out for time once a week (1,650 is nice because you can mentally break it into 3 550’s or 11 150’s for pacing purposes). Nice thing about doing those is that ties up the endurance part of swimming in a pretty quick block of time.

For what it’s worth: My philosophy is to enjoy swimming by doing as little as I can while still exiting the water in my AG in the top 1 or 2. Weekly yardage is ~ 7,000 about 5 times a week. My motto is I don’t swim for fitness (I get that from running and cycling) I swim for fastness!

Enjoy the journey,
keith

14

OP I am also very curious what could you do for an all-out 100y TT currently, to see how that compares to the 100’s you’re hitting during main sets.

And, for others posting on the thread, how far off 100y PR pace do most folks do their 100 repeats?

Hate to semi-hijack the thread but I see you’re getting some great responses here, and I think I am experiencing a similar thing and am probably of a similar fitness level (and also have similar goals!). I’ve been doing sets of 100’s coming in around 1:19-1:21 on 1:35-140 but if you asked me to hit a 1:15 for just one of those reps in a long set, I don’t think I could do it if my life depended on it. My best one-off 100 during a shorter workout is 1:13, but I’m guessing I could probably go around 1:10 currently, give or take, in a time trial. I did an all-out 50 from a push last weekend in 33.8, at the end of a fairly short workout.

I’m less confident my issue is a volume one and I think for me, it’s more of a pure power issue and probably largely technique as well, so I’m going to try to get some good underwater video and see what that looks like. And I’m going to take back some of the feedback from this thread to focus less on dropping the leave time and try to do a bunch of volume with more rest at a faster pace.

That sounds like a good approach. To know how to improve your speed from a technical perspective, have someone tell you what your stroke rate is during the 2nd 25 of 50 freestyle. Time from when your right arm enters the water until it enters the water. If your stroke rate is normal or fast, you’ll need to focus on getting longer in the water. If you’re stroke rate is slow, then your focus should be more on picking up the stroke rate.

Alternatively, you could count your strokes. If the number is pretty low, focus on improving the stroke rate. If the number is high, you need to focus on getting longer.

If you need to work on length, perform some of your speed work with 1-2 strokes less than normal per 25. This will help you learn to stay longer at speed. If you need to work on rate, just place your emphasis there, while ensuring that you’re taking the same number of strokes as normal.

You can certainly focus on specific skills as well. However, with this approach, it keeps you focused on the outcomes that directly affect your performance. Importantly, it’s pretty easy to do, even without a coach.

15

Thank you for all your comments!

I am also curious as to how my repeat 100s compare to an all out effort. I am curious if any coaches out there have expectations for what their swimmers can hold based on their 100yd sprint times? I recently did a 100yd sprint at the end of practice in 1:10, from a push. I think if I was in a meet setting and there was a block involved I could probably hit a 1:05. I think it’s also relevant to mention that I grew up swimming for a very small, rural club team (think middle of nowhere), and we only had practice 3 days a week (and it was seasonal Sept-March). Even though I swam for them for 10 years, I never felt that I developed a good aerobic base and my times dropped off considerably for race distances above 100yds (when I managed to do 100yds in :58 my best 200 time was around a 2:10, and 500 at 6:00). Our coaches did not have any certifications and were previous high school swimmers, so this was definitely not a high quality swim club. As I became a senior swimmer I ended up mostly writing my own workouts. Given this, I don’t think it’s very surprising that my sprint times don’t translate well to my aerobic intervals. I’m very much a student of the sport, so I appreciate any advice that can help me build my aerobic base at this point in my life.

In terms of my training for triathlon, this is not my focus. I am training for a ~20 mile open water swim this summer and was only mentioning triathlon because I might do one on the side for fun. In all honesty, I don’t even bike right now and I only run about 2 times a week. I think for me it’s more about doing what I enjoy rather than focusing on racing and times. Still, that doesn’t stop me from wanting to improve.

While there you may have time constraints preventing you from doing so, I would suggest that if you plan to do a 20 mile open water swim, it would be wise to occasionally perform workouts that are longer than 4000y/m as that is quite a distance, and you’d want some experience with longer efforts.