We now know the WC is going to be in Nice. That means quite a different challenge Vs Kona as there’s a proper climb and a proper descent with switchbacks and turns.
Obviously we don’t know what the bicycle race course is going to be exactly but we can look at the current IM France course for an idea.
From the race profile, the climbing doesn’t seem to be crazy hard. It’s proper climbing but, except for a short part, it’s almost never going over 10%. And the average appears to be just under 5%
The descent however seems like a truly technical one with lots of switchbacks and turns where you can gain a lot of time if done properly.
Personally, I know I don’t descend very well on a triathlon bike but I haven’t had to do it much.
You can easily estimate the impact of of aerodynamics and bike weight. However, it’s not easy to estimate the impact of poor descending skills.
So here come the questions:
do you have any tips on descending well on a triathlon bike? Do you adjust your setup for this kind of races?
any tips for Nice specifically?
are there any equipment choices that make it easier? Is this a situation where disc brakes make a big difference? (please don’t turn it into a disc vs rim brakes thread)
can you achieve the same descending performance on a tri bike vs road bike? Why yes? Why not?
how much can you gain/lose if not descending optimally and overbraking? Is there any way to benchmark/estimate that and compare how you’d descend with a triathlon bike vs using a road bike (with aerobars for the flat parts).
I did Nice (a long time ago) in 2009. Don’t think that the course has changed much. At the time I had a TT bike and aero road bike and chose the road bike with clip ons. I was only mid pack going for a finish. Had I been pointy end then there are probably advantages in the TT bike. Most of the pros use TT bikes still. At least one person was airlifted off the descent following a crash, and I saw a couple more casualties who had overcooked it, but you get that anywhere.
TT bike descending will obviously vary depending on your set up. Anyone who has chosen to size up will probably benefit from the increased stability. And yes, disc brakes will help. Just know your braking capabilities. Alu rims would be an easy solution for those who can’t descend. Practice makes perfect. I’ve found descending on a TT bike can be just as fast and enjoyable, and found a good technique is getting your butt off and behind, or lightly at the rear of the saddle, relaxing your arms and hands and bringing your knees in to the top tube. Makes adjusting your weight distribution easier. Learn to brake before the corners, not in them.
I think any time lost descending on a TT bike will be negligible. Anyone going to the WC will likely have decent bike handling skills.
We now know the WC is going to be in Nice. That means quite a different challenge Vs Kona as there’s a proper climb and a proper descent with switchbacks and turns.
Obviously we don’t know what the bicycle race course is going to be exactly but we can look at the current IM France course for an idea.
From the race profile, the climbing doesn’t seem to be crazy hard. It’s proper climbing but, except for a short part, it’s almost never going over 10%. And the average appears to be just under 5%
The descent however seems like a truly technical one with lots of switchbacks and turns where you can gain a lot of time if done properly.
Personally, I know I don’t descend very well on a triathlon bike but I haven’t had to do it much.
You can easily estimate the impact of of aerodynamics and bike weight. However, it’s not easy to estimate the impact of poor descending skills.
So here come the questions:
do you have any tips on descending well on a triathlon bike? Do you adjust your setup for this kind of races?
any tips for Nice specifically?
are there any equipment choices that make it easier? Is this a situation where disc brakes make a big difference? (please don’t turn it into a disc vs rim brakes thread)
can you achieve the same descending performance on a tri bike vs road bike? Why yes? Why not?
how much can you gain/lose if not descending optimally and overbraking? Is there any way to benchmark/estimate that and compare how you’d descend with a triathlon bike vs using a road bike (with aerobars for the flat parts).
Thanks!
Throw rotten fruit if you must…
But as an outsider to triathlon, and a time trial enthusiast…I find it interesting folks involved in a “world championships” need to ask questions like this.
I live in Switzerland in the Alps, I get lots of chance to practice climbing and descending.
Not all TT bikes are equal, my Cervelo P3X is great at descending, there really isn’t much between a road bike and TT bike. On the other hand, my old Specialized Shiv wasn’t great at descending, it felt twitchy and nervous, not something you want at 80kph (50mph).
What about climbing? a road bike climbs better, however, I suspect that gains will be cancelled by the TT bikes performance on the flat.
Disc brakes vs rims brakes. Controversially I would say that in mountains there really isn’t that much benefit for a good descender - the gradients are generally not steep, and rim brakes are still powerful enough to lock your wheel. The issues comes if you are not good on descents and you drag the brakes all the way down, I have seen many cyclists cooking and exploding their rims doing this, far better to brake hard into the corner and let the bike run on the straights. My climbing road bike is an old Cervelo R5CA complete with rim brakes, I have no problem on the descents. I also have a Specialized Tarmac SL6 Disc, it’s also great in the mountains. Where discs do have an advantage is in the rain, rim brakes and carbon wheels are not pleasant, and brake modulation is poor, in really heavy rain I have experienced a situation where rim brakes and carbon wheels actually cease to function - this is scary
When i did the IM70.3 WC in Nice, I was shocked how poor many triathletes are at descending, it was really hard to predict what lines they would take through the bends. In the 70.3 WC in Nice I used my TT bike, I would probably do so again as I am more familiar with a TT bike in the context of Triathlon, however, I don’t think that one is significantly quicker that the other
But as an outsider to triathlon, and a time trial enthusiast…I find it interesting folks involved in a “world championships” need to ask questions like this.
I’m sorry that you think people shouldn’t ask question and seem to think it’s appropriate to belittle that they do. Some of the people on this forum are very knowledgeable and can add a lot to the conversation.
I don’t have the arrogance to think that I’ve got nothing to learn or improve even though there’s nearly 2 hours between me and Gustav Iden. Let’s be honest we are talking about world championships but most of us around here are amateurs just doing it for the fun.
Actually, I think a “beginner mindset” is key for success and that everybody can learn something, including “folks involved in a “world championships””. In fairness, I would be surprised if the “World Champions” themselves didn’t believe in applying a “beginner mindset”.
Besides, I’ve never ridden in Nice so why shouldn’t I try to get tips about this specific race?
I did Nice (a long time ago) in 2009. Don’t think that the course has changed much. At the time I had a TT bike and aero road bike and chose the road bike with clip ons. I was only mid pack going for a finish. Had I been pointy end then there are probably advantages in the TT bike. Most of the pros use TT bikes still. At least one person was airlifted off the descent following a crash, and I saw a couple more casualties who had overcooked it, but you get that anywhere.
TT bike descending will obviously vary depending on your set up. Anyone who has chosen to size up will probably benefit from the increased stability. And yes, disc brakes will help. Just know your braking capabilities. Alu rims would be an easy solution for those who can’t descend. Practice makes perfect. I’ve found descending on a TT bike can be just as fast and enjoyable, and found a good technique is getting your butt off and behind, or lightly at the rear of the saddle, relaxing your arms and hands and bringing your knees in to the top tube. Makes adjusting your weight distribution easier. Learn to brake before the corners, not in them.
I think any time lost descending on a TT bike will be negligible. Anyone going to the WC will likely have decent bike handling skills.
Thank you for the answer - and you make some interesting points, when I got my triathlon bike I chose a smaller size because it was easier to get into an aggressive aero position but it makes sense that a bigger size would work better for descending.
You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think athletes or coaches behave in this manner for pretty much any race course specific thought process/recon/strategy.
disc brakes absolutely will make a massive difference
if it was me, I would probably take an aero road bike like a Specialized Tarmac SL7 with clip ons. It may not be much slower overall than a TT bike, but sure will be more fun
Interesting point! I’m not aware of any triathlon bike that has that. I guess you could retrofit an older bike model with standard tubing?
It would be so cool if a pro triathlete did just that and gained a massive amount of time on those 40km of descent. It would definitely be an interesting show and something different compared to the straight and steady Hawi descent.
But as an outsider to triathlon, and a time trial enthusiast…I find it interesting folks involved in a “world championships” need to ask questions like this.
No need to throw rotten fruits, your view is just not very educated.
Take into account that people can qualify by participating in a very diverse set of races. Some having 100% flat and straight bike courses. So you can be one of the best triathletes in the world, while being clueless about descending mountain roads.
I’ve qualified myself in the past, yet I still need help whenever I get a flat. Terrible mechanics can be fast. Maybe you will find even more interesting that a guy called Lionel S. broke the bike hour record in Canada while being close to clueless about what even kids from your Saturday morning group ride already know about bicycles.
But as an outsider to triathlon, and a time trial enthusiast…I find it interesting folks involved in a “world championships” need to ask questions like this.
I’m sorry that you think people shouldn’t ask question and seem to think it’s appropriate to belittle that they do. Some of the people on this forum are very knowledgeable and can add a lot to the conversation.
I don’t have the arrogance to think that I’ve got nothing to learn or improve even though there’s nearly 2 hours between me and Gustav Iden. Let’s be honest we are talking about world.
You don’t have to explain yourself. Burnthesheep made a low quality comment. What I like about the triathlon community is that, unlike the road cycling (including time trial) community, people will tend to either answer your question or STFU.
do you have any tips on descending well on a triathlon bike? Do you adjust your setup for this kind of races?
As a heavier rider, I learned early on that being able to descend well is needed in order to make up some of the time lost on the climbs. I think it all comes down to practice: I ride lots of mountains on my tri bike, so I’ve gotten really comfortable descending on it.
are there any equipment choices that make it easier? Is this a situation where disc brakes make a big difference? (please don’t turn it into a disc vs rim brakes thread)
Even on really technical descents, I’ve never found brakes to be an issue, with the exception of cheap mechanical discs. Quality disc brakes, rim brakes on aluminum rims, rim brakes on carbon rims, all have more than enough power for how I ride. Some of the cheaper mechanical discs don’t have the same power, so I’ve found myself having to brake much earlier before a turn, which results in a lower overall average speed.
can you achieve the same descending performance on a tri bike vs road bike? Why yes? Why not?
That depends on the descent. On technical descents where I have to keep my hands on the brakes (my favorite), I’m just as fast. In fact, some of my PRs have been set on my QR Lucero. On less technical descents, where I don’t have to brake much (or at all), I’m faster on my road bike, only because it allows me to get into a lower tuck.
do you have any tips on descending well on a triathlon bike? Do you adjust your setup for this kind of races?
any tips for Nice specifically?
are there any equipment choices that make it easier? Is this a situation where disc brakes make a big difference? (please don’t turn it into a disc vs rim brakes thread)
can you achieve the same descending performance on a tri bike vs road bike? Why yes? Why not?
Thanks!
The main difference won’t come from equipment choice, it’s first about the rider in that situation, how skilled they are with road or tri bikes.
If you are not super comfortable with your tri bike, I’d recommend a road bike for Nice. Not because of the steepness, course is not that hard, but rather because it’s very technical. The minutes you’d save on the flat straight sections with the tri bike will be nothing in comparison to what one can lose in the technical descending parts.
If you feel super comfortable with the tri bike, use it, you won’t lose any actual time while climbing a slightly heavier frame. This is not Embrun.
Either way I’d recommend using gloves. You’ll want all the possible grip while descending those laces.
But as an outsider to triathlon, and a time trial enthusiast…I find it interesting folks involved in a “world championships” need to ask questions like this.
I’m sorry that you think people shouldn’t ask question and seem to think it’s appropriate to belittle that they do. Some of the people on this forum are very knowledgeable and can add a lot to the conversation.
I don’t have the arrogance to think that I’ve got nothing to learn or improve even though there’s nearly 2 hours between me and Gustav Iden. Let’s be honest we are talking about world.
You don’t have to explain yourself. Burnthesheep made a low quality comment. What I like about the triathlon community is that, unlike the road cycling (including time trial) community, people will tend to either answer your question or STFU.
I just had to google this and got an answer of 3360 people for 2021, if I have the right event. I wouldn’t have made the slight/comment if the “WC” wasn’t mentioned as I’m used to reading about quite small field sizes and super highly competent teams/individuals in online articles. So, you have to understand how a question like that would sound “off”.
You could forgive a lay person being taken aback that a world championship has questions being asked more along the lines of a normal event. I wouldn’t have batted an eye or put in a single keyboard stroke into it if it wasn’t related to a world championship.
If someone comes into a TT topic saying they’re going to elite worlds or plan to break the hour record, but ask “which way do I ride around the velodrome”…it raises eyebrows.
But as an outsider to triathlon, and a time trial enthusiast…I find it interesting folks involved in a “world championships” need to ask questions like this.
No fruit - just cheering.
Here, here!
To give some idea of the sensitivity of this crowd, there was a situation in Kona a few years back at the IMWC’s where, they were doing some road upgrade work on the Queen K near town. I believe that before the race they were not going to have a chance to fully finish with a top coat of smooth pavement a portion of the road and this 200m stretch would be left in that slightly roughened way for the race - still pavement, but just a bit rougher than normal. Apparently at the Pre Race Meeting for the Age-Groupers there was a near mutiny - with many threatening that they would have to dismount and walk this stretch!! facepalm
