I know there has been a lot of topics on this but I cannot seem to find the answer to some specific input on recovery from long runs. Reading through all the relevant topics it appears that general consencus is that the longest run in training does not have to exceed 2 to 3hr. I am signed up for LP, will be my first, also never ran a marathon, aiming for an 11hr finish time (apart from making the finish line as first priority ;-)).
Anyways, the program that I am following builds up the weekly long runs (4 week blocks) to 4+ hrs, which basically implies that I will be running close to or little over 26 miles once or twice.
From reading through different topics on this the most common arguments against such a long run are the increased risk of injury and the time it takes to recover from these long runs. Question is if it really takes that much time to recover from these long very easy runs? I am now up to 2.5 hrs, taking it easy in zone 1-2, and am pretty much recovered the next day or maybe the day thereafter. Obviously need to listen to the body injury wise but as long as I continue to recover pretty quickly from these long runs I cannot think of any downside to keeping the long runs in.
I would appreciate some confirmation that I am doing the right thing here I know ST will deliver…
Must be some endurance freaks that have good experience with these long runs.
When training for CdA in 2009, I did some stupidly long runs. In 2011, for Texas, I did nothing terribly serious. Apart from running the Austin Marathon in February, I don’t think I did anything over 14 miles in the lead-up to IMTX, although the number of times I ran per week was 4–5. Feel free to take a peek through my ST or Movescount.com training logs…if you can go back that far.
Good Question - as a general rule I try to limit all my clients to runs about 2:30 or at the most 2:45. For all the reasons you gave I think going over this time frame is too harsh on the body.
BTW one of the questions I ask my running clients is, “how long are you going to take off when you complete your marathon?” This can vary from a week to a month - so this begs the question for me, what sense is there running a marathon in training so many times in a training plan?
No need to push past 18-20. If you can run and recover from 20 at an easy pace you’re set. I usually run 3-4 18mi but Im more of a run focus guy (most enjoyable). No need to do any more, maybe just work on speed/efficiency at those longer distances if you feel the need.
I think any Ironman training program that asks you to run for 4+ hours in one sitting, you need to run away from. Any Ironman training program that asks you to run 26+ miles as the longest run before taper, you need to run away from even faster.
I think you gain more by doing 1 hour run + 2 -2.5 hour run on back to back days and in general working on getting overall running mileage up. it is hard to get high running mileage if you do a really long run and have to spend too much time recovering…plus as a triathlete training for IM, you need large blocks of time for biking, whereas you can get the same running mileage spreading it over several short time slices of 40-60 minutes over the week and saving the large blocks of time for biking. If you do a 3 hour run, you basically lost a 3 hour block to do a hard ride of 3 hours. Those are valuable slices of time that most can’t afford to give away to a low “return” training session like a 3 hour run.
I find that overall we have to look at the 168 hours in a week and decide how many hours and in what slices you can devote them to training. Then figure out how to optimize the workout so that you can be recovered as quickly as possible for the next workout to ensure you have quality in the next workouts.
If you do a 3 hour run and are toast for several days that’s actually reducing the overall training load for the week.
I have done it all. Multiple long aerobic runs over 20 miles, few long runs of 20 miles but with the last few miles at race or faster specific intensity, 15-18 mile trail runs with one 20 and one 22 mile road run also with back end intensity. My conclusion? They all work…because as long as it’s part of a plan and you recover well it’s simply all about THE WORK.
Bryan, that is a bit what I am thinking as well: as long as I continue to recover quickly this should work. Also: as a newbie to the marathon distance I do believe that it makes sense to get the body used to the distance… Pretty sure that once I have done that I will not go as long in training anymore for future races but I am still looking to also get some confidence out of these long runs.
There have got to be more people doing these really long runs in training, or is it that stupid…
A solid 2hrs with some hard running thrown in is much better for you than slogging out a slow 4hr shuffle just for the sake of it.
To save my legs I used to do do three week cycles for my long run.
Week one was a hard 90 min,
Week two 2hrs with about 40 mins of it hard intervals on the road.
Week three 2.5 hrs trail/beach/adventure run just running.
There was a time that my long run was just 1hr 50min home from work once a week…
You sound a little like where I was: first IM, never run a stand-alone 26 before, similar overall goal… I had a few setbacks early in the season and was careful not to try and do too much too soon coming back as running was my weakest link anyway, so I never quite got my long run up to where I’d hoped, only 2 hrs/~14mi. Race plan was to run between aid stations but walk each one to calmly get whatever drink/ice/sponge I needed without sloshing up my nose, etc, which worked out pretty much as I’d hoped. Ended up running a little over 4 hours and a shade over 11hrs total, for comparison.
Biggest keys I think were 1) overall running volume, trying to squeeze in more frequent short/easier runs during the week and less focus on the one long run; see the BarryP plan here in the archives, and 2) training heavily on the bike and not overcooking it on race day so I got to the start of the run in relatively ‘fresh’ shape. I told myself I could do whatever it took to keep shuffling at that point and it turned out to be, well, not “easy” but by the turnaround I felt pretty confident I was going to make it and actually passed quite a few walkers (which almost NEVER happens in shorter races cuz I’m much better at S&B so all the slower runners are already behind me by T2, and anyone who’s ahead of me at T2 is almost surely a better runner as well).
Running long fresh is completely different than running long following 2.4 mile swim, and a 112 mile bike. I’m not advocating doing bricks and I’m not saying running long is bad, I just think that if you have the extra time and energy that it is better spent in other areas, specifically the bike, or swimming if it is your weakness.
I think any Ironman training program that asks you to run for 4+ hours in one sitting, you need to run away from. Any Ironman training program that asks you to run 26+ miles as the longest run before taper, you need to run away from even faster.
Just think… a lot of people pay some hack coach $200/month to get that shitty advice. I don’t know how many times I’ve read comments like “I want my athletes to know what it feels like to run for 4+ hours and I’m preparing them for that” and similar bullshit. They have a cool USAT certification which lends some kind of credibility to that advice so it must be good.
Bryan, that is a bit what I am thinking as well: as long as I continue to recover quickly this should work. Also: as a newbie to the marathon distance I do believe that it makes sense to get the body used to the distance… Pretty sure that once I have done that I will not go as long in training anymore for future races but I am still looking to also get some confidence out of these long runs.
There have got to be more people doing these really long runs in training, or is it that stupid…
What gets your body used to the distance is mileage. It’s more important to get your overall mileage up than it is to bang out 26 miles in a row a few times. If you shred your legs running marathons in training you’re not going to be able to put the bike mileage in to get you to the start of the marathon ready to run any kind of pace anyways.
My IM run training focuses on high frequeny/high intensity weekday training and weekend training to be no longer than 2 1/2 hours at once; of course I am doing a 2 hour bike beforehand.
IMHO going long doesn’t always mean a faster IM run and of course there is those pesky 2 other sports we are still training for ;O)
I actually race a few 13.1 during training seems to help me run a fast IM Marathon…actually gonna race one shortly to see my new PR
What to do. The funny thing is. I have a very strong swimming background: I know for sure that in training I will never ever ever go 4,000yrs just to practice the distance. In fact, I am sure that I could do very well on a training program with 50 yds sets only. But I think that I can only do this because I have logged thousands of swimming miles over time. With running I am new to longer distrance hence my urge to get those long runs in…
Bryan, that is a bit what I am thinking as well: as long as I continue to recover quickly this should work. Also: as a newbie to the marathon distance I do believe that it makes sense to get the body used to the distance… Pretty sure that once I have done that I will not go as long in training anymore for future races but I am still looking to also get some confidence out of these long runs.
There have got to be more people doing these really long runs in training, or is it that stupid…
I think the overwhelming majority here think it is stupid. Of course you jump on Bryan’s reply as it tells you what you want to hear. He is an elite athlete so I’m thinking all the rules don’t apply to him. 2.5 hours tops and you will be fine. Run often. Running 4 hours to get used to the distance will not help you on raceday.
What to do. The funny thing is. I have a very strong swimming background: I know for sure that in training I will never ever ever go 4,000yrs just to practice the distance. In fact, I am sure that I could do very well on a training program with 50 yds sets only. But I think that I can only do this because I have logged thousands of swimming miles over time. With running I am new to longer distrance hence my urge to get those long runs in…
Do what you gotta do bro; wouldn’t be my plan. GL with Placid…can’t wait for it.
I know ST will deliver…