Ok so I am “all in” on IM training. I am a runner and find that 20-22 miles is about as long as my body can handle for LONG RUNS.
FYI this will be my 4th IM - 11:23, 10:41, 10:33 and **(10:10 - 10:15GOAL). I know to get there my gains have to be on the bike which is where most of my focus has been this training season.
As far as cycling I am doing about 900-1,000 mile per month with 1 - 100 mile LONG RIDE each week. I recently tried 125 miles and was surprised how well I felt afterward and the next morning.
So far I have done 2 - 125 mile LONG RIDES (@19.5 and 20.4 MPH) and have 4 more planned before my IM Louisville taper.
So just wondering what the school of thought was on LONG RIDE distance or time? Is there a general range out there like there is in running where most plans and coaches agree with 20-22 miles being a good LONG RUN target.
1600km a month → 400km/week, should be plenty!
I plan to ride someting like 500 miles in 4 days this week and another few hundred next monday/tuesday, not for IM training, but because I have vacation and riding through Germany feels like what I want to do!
That’s plenty of mileage, the the real question is what is the training load and intensity of the other rides in addition to the long ride. A 100mi ride at 75% is different than 68-70%, and it’s a lot harder if you’ve been averaging lets say 78-80% for the other 150 miles you already rode that week… as opposed to 70-75%. It will really test you leg fatigue and energy systems.
Long rides are good for fitness, testing nutrition, metal preparation, but it’s what you do the other 4-5 rides that week that really count and are when build your fitness and FTP.
Speed doesn’t mean much as its’ dependent on your overall set-up. I have some slow training wheels and loaded with bottles, cycling jersey , road helmet, I can be 2mph slower than the pace I expect to race at in an IM.
I actually haven’t had a month over 850 miles yet this year, though I should approach 1000 this month in my final build.
Funny thing…When I was a speedskater we did 1000 mile/months from April through July. I’m nowhere close to that now (~750 a month) and I’m a much stronger rider.
At some point on your long ride going pretty easy, it will start to suck. If it starts to suck at less than 112 miles, then this is where your training begins. If you eventually get up to doing an entire 112 miles without it sucking, then you are done.
You can also go harder for a proportionally shorter distance, inverse to the effort. As long as that never sucks, you are good as well. How short that is and how hard to go is a mystery for the Ages.
I don’t believe in doing any runs over 16 miles or rides of over 90. That being said, I do these longer efforts as close to goal pace as I can. Goal splits for IM Boulder/IM Louisville this summer will be 4:45ish. Did last weekends long ride at a bit over 23mph avg.
I just get bored on anything longer.
That’s plenty of mileage, the the real question is what is the training load and intensity of the other rides in addition to the long ride. A 100mi ride at 75% is different than 68-70%, and it’s a lot harder if you’ve been averaging lets say 78-80% for the other 150 miles you already rode that week… as opposed to 70-75%. It will really test you leg fatigue and energy systems.
Long rides are good for fitness, testing nutrition, metal preparation, but it’s what you do the other 4-5 rides that week that really count and are when build your fitness and FTP.
Speed doesn’t mean much as its’ dependent on your overall set-up. I have some slow training wheels and loaded with bottles, cycling jersey , road helmet, I can be 2mph slower than the pace I expect to race at in an IM.
I actually haven’t had a month over 850 miles yet this year, though I should approach 1000 this month in my final build.
Good feedback.
A typical week:
I do 2 - 1 hour rides at 85% effort on Tuesday and Thursday. Pretty much the hardest effort I can consistently hold for a 1 hour. I treat the Garmin like a video game and I’m shooting for high score. These are high octane workouts.
The other days are pretty much easy/recovery rides of 1 to 3 hours at 65-70% effort. I also kick in 2 spin classes each week for good measure.
The long rides are 80 % easy mixed with 20% hard effort hill climbing. I get off the bike tired and not wasted. The overall average effort for these rides is 70-75%.
This is a much higher riding volume than I had last year and it seems to be paying off. Raced a hilly 70.3 last month with a 22.1 MPH bike split and solid run, which was not possible last year. I just want to get this right and not go overboard heading into the A race.
I do 2 - 1 hour rides at 85% effort on Tuesday and Thursday. Pretty much the hardest effort I can consistently hold for a 1 hour. I treat the Garmin like a video game and I’m shooting for high score. These are high octane workouts.
The other days are pretty much easy/recovery rides of 1 to 3 hours at 65-70% effort. I also kick in 2 spin classes each week for good measure.
The long rides are 80 % easy mixed with 20% hard effort hill climbing. I get off the bike tired and not wasted. The overall average effort for these rides is 70-75%.
This is a much higher riding volume than I had last year and it seems to be paying off. Raced a hilly 70.3 last month with a 22.1 MPH bike split and solid run, which was not possible last year. I just want to get this right and not go overboard heading into the A race.
0.85 IF for 60 minutes shouldn’t be that hard. 90IF would be. You should be able to do 70-90 minutes at 85% to make it a solid tempo ride. You might be jumping the gun with your amount of volume, with limited quality, though the spin classes might make up for it. The long rides sound like they are a solid pace however. Overall, it’s one way to skin a cat and will really push your energy systems, but not the most time efficient.
I also like 90-120 minute tempo rides because these types of sustained efforts are needed for 70.3, good for mental toughness and even in an IM, you could end up in a stiff headwind and need to ride low tempo for 30-40 minutes at a stretch in some cases.
Lost of volume still does wonders for overall fitness regardless of how it’s chopped up.
Mike,
I appreciate the comments. This is all pretty new to me but I’m a quick learner.
Training for IM #4. Past results - 11:23, 10:41, 10:33.
In the 45-49 AG at Louisville I need to get to 10:10-10:15 to get a KQ.
I have never fully committed to bike training so I know I’ve got 15-20 minutes ready to be picked up if I do things right this go around. I’ve never done TEMPO rides until this year. I have kept most to 60 minutes but will increase them to 75-90 min after reading your comments.
I’ve never done 6-7 hr rides but this season after a dozen 5 hr rides the jump to 125 miles was pretty easy. I don’t do power but I averaged 19.6 mph and 20.4 mph on a fairly challenging course similar to the Louisville course.
I read your very detailed blog and thoroughly enjoyed it. Good to read how someone else is going about trying to get to the same goal. It’s just the inspiration I needed with 7 weeks to race day and the hot Middle Georgia weather zapping me of energy. Good luck in Wisconsin and if we should both meet our goals, let me buy you a beer at Kona.
0.85 IF for 60 minutes shouldn’t be that hard. 90IF would be. You should be able to do 70-90 minutes at 85% to make it a solid tempo ride. You might be jumping the gun with your amount of volume, with limited quality, though the spin classes might make up for it. The long rides sound like they are a solid pace however. Overall, it’s one way to skin a cat and will really push your energy systems, but not the most
Just to clarify - are you suggesting a constant pace equivalent to IF .85 for 70-90 minutes or something like a 70-90 minute interval workout (e.g. TrainerRoad workout) that has an overall IF of .85 or higher? Or are they the same? TSS would be the same, no?
Could be steady state or intervals. Take your pick. 0.85 IF… i.e. normalized power value equal to 85% of FTP for the whole ride. There’s value to both. On a hilly route I might push Z4 uphill and Z3 everywhere else. On a flat route, more steady state riding. IT gets mentally and physically hard later in the ride. 85% is 70.3 bike pace, so it should take some focus, but the first 20-30 minutes shouldn’t be too hard. You really have to hold yourself back a bit.
Interested in hearing from those who disagree. Here is my answer to how long is too long:
- Any ride that prevents you from doing a tempo run (or bike) two days away. The long ride should not be that so “hard” that you are not recovered in 48 hrs.
- The ride should not exceed 5 hours. It is not an effective use of time to ride slowly “forever.”
Recommendation-
- Pick a moderate training pace. (I think 73% FTP is about right).
Ride at that speed for the lesser of 5 hrs or when you start to feel that you would be compromised for a tempo effort in 48 hrs.
- If you cannot make 5 hrs, keep building until you can.
- If you can make 5 hrs, add training stress to another workout, or more stress to long ride. Do not increase stress by adding time to long ride.
I agree with Colin, no real necessity to do many rides over 90-100miles. If you can get the same TSS / kJ requirement in a shorter ride with more intense intervals (Tempo/Sweet Spot), you’ll accomplish the same physiological strain as an Ironman.
Sure there is the argument of not all TSS or miles are created equal, which can be true. But if you can create the same or more TSS as you’ll do in an Ironman in a shorter, more intense ride, don’t spend more time than you need, and you’ll get a higher FTP. Sweet Spot is a great training zone. For an Ironman, Tempo is more important, but you can use Sweet Spot to get stronger.
http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspot.html
I think 85-90 miles is really the sweet spot for long rides. Sure you can go a lot longer but that effectively kills the entire day and as you said costs mentally. 4-5h is solid, repeatable and can be done before lunch, allowing for family/friends-time as well as some swimming.
It can however be smart to do a few rides in the 110 miles range when training for ironman. It also makes the 4h rides feel a lot shorter.