I’m curious to know what proportion of people’s training is at their target Ironman race pace. For me, it’s a tiny amount, like 10% maybe. I swim with a masters swim club, so have to go way faster than I will on race day just to keep up with the people in my lane. I do most of my bike mileage on a trainer, so aside from warm-up and cool-down, I am well above any pace I could maintain for an IM. All of my running is in lunchtimes (45-60 minutes), so I tend to run relatively hard (burning off frustration!) and certainly above what I anticipate I can hold on race day.
So basically I am at IM race pace when I warm up on the bike or for the first couple of minutes of a run, but aside from that pretty much all of my training (9-12 hours per week usually) is at a pace I could not sustain for IM. What do other people do?
i’m about 80% in z2 HR, which is my goal for pacing an IM …
I’m curious to know what proportion of people’s training is at their target Ironman race pace. For me, it’s a tiny amount, like 10% maybe. I swim with a masters swim club, so have to go way faster than I will on race day just to keep up with the people in my lane. I do most of my bike mileage on a trainer, so aside from warm-up and cool-down, I am well above any pace I could maintain for an IM. All of my running is in lunchtimes (45-60 minutes), so I tend to run relatively hard (burning off frustration!) and certainly above what I anticipate I can hold on race day.
So basically I am at IM race pace when I warm up on the bike or for the first couple of minutes of a run, but aside from that pretty much all of my training (9-12 hours per week usually) is at a pace I could not sustain for IM. What do other people do?
How much at IM pace? Lots! In terms of swimming, one of my three weekly swims consists of 100s or 200s on short rest (5-sec, 10-sec). Another workout is a long set of 100s (25-40) on 5-sec rest. When the recovery is that short, I inevitably end up around my IM pace. I have only one day where I’m only doing fast intervals.
Of my four rides per week, I do a long one of 4-5 hours at the same effort level as my race (0.67-0.70 IF). Another is an easy recovery ride of 60-75 minutes done below IM effort.
I run four times a week and only one of those runs might involve some tempo or interval work. My long run is slower than my IM pace. Occasionally I will feel good on a brick run and go well below race pace. The rest of the time I’m typically running plus or minus 15 seconds from my IM pace. I will have several weeks in which I do no fast running.
That’s seven of eleven workouts that are close to my IM pace or effort. That does not include the warm-ups and cool downs for the harder days. I’ve never purposely adopted an 80-20 plan but as I write this post I’m realizing that it’s pretty close to what I’ve been doing.
FWIW, for my last race I averaged 13 hours/ week for entire training period with 16 hours/ week for the10 weeks leading into the taper. That’s a high volume for me and so I have to keep the intensity level low.
Hey aren’t you the guy from the ‘I have 12hr a week’ thread?
IRONMAN is about metabolic efficiency at aerobic intensity. Sounds like you are consistently training too hard to efficiently stimulate aerobic development. You are getting some as a byproduct of all of your training, but you are working harder than you need to and not optimally for developing aerobic engine.
To answer your question, all most all my work is z2, most days entirely z2. 1-2 sessions per week total with intervals, usually more sweet spot type intervals, very rarely Tabatas or vo2 type intervals. Only go there enough to hit that system occasionally, but the bread and butter of the week is always z2.
Kinda depends doesn’t it? Especially for bike. Stealing the famous TP image below. Being that Z2 is traditionally 65-75% FTP, most athletes should be spending the bulk of their time near IM pace.
For the run it’s basically the same, but there is a lot more individual variance in running, especially in terms of injury. It is important to be able to run fast, more so than it is to bike fast. That is to say, doing IM pace biking only would get you decent results, but IM pace only running will heed generally lackluster results.
Depends on the discipline.
In swimming very little, maybe few race-specific sessions during last few weeks. Maybe 4-6 main sets total, longish upper aerobic race-pace session - between 3000 and 4000 for most Age-Groupers.
More on the bike - during last few weeks there is usually either 70.3 or 140.6 section during long ride, ie 3x1h or 2x90’.
On the run for most people easy to moderate endurance pace is very close to their race-pace on IM. I often use walking breaks with my athletes so they run around IM pace but there are some very low intensity breakes to keep the metabolic stimulus right and it is an injury prevention as well.
And obviously if you train 20h per week it is a different story than if you train 5h per week 
Wattie used to have a blog post on the Wattie Ink website about how you might have to dump some masters sessions to get the best IM training. I agree.
I think 400 and 800 yard sets are key to preparing for a 1 to 2 hour swim.
You can still pull threshold up with some speed work and you can still push threshold up with z2 work, but I think your stamina work over the last 12 to 16 weeks should be z3 / race pace heavy.
At swimming hard to say: I’m doing most ly 50m intervals, where I am slightly over IM pace. I do sometimes 1000 meters too, or 3800. Let’s say 10 % IM pace overall in swimming.
On the bike only the last 2 months before the IM. One session per week, increasing from 225 minutes to 275 minutes per session.
Running only 20 minutes per week (as a brick after abovementioned bike sessions).
edit:
I lied: over the winter I did 20 minutes on the treadmill in IM pace as a brick after every high intensity trainer interval session.
So over the whole season regarded not a lot.
Pretty well every swim has lots of meters waaaay above IM race pace (IM swim pace is roughly my warmup swim pace or recovery swim pace…there is still 8-15 hrs to go after the swim) and for the bike other than cooldown or warmup or recovery between intervals, I was always riding above IM race pace. It made IM race pace to T2 feel pretty straightforward. Running it is pretty hard for your average weekly pace to be much faster than IM pace unless you are absolute front of the pack Kona Podium person and even then it will be pretty close.
Sam, I can see you are still looking for validation for your approach to your upcoming ironman. You are strapped for time and plan to almost all of your training at a higher intensity rather than easier.
I won’t steer you away from your approach. Use your past experiences to make future training choices. In the past have you done any IM races off of mostly low intensity long sessions and/or have you tried to train almost all sessions at high intensity for a long course race before?
If you are just curious as to what others do then here is my approach. I train/coach with a balanced approach throughout the off season. A mix of everything to build a well rounded athlete, endurance/tempo/threshold/vo2. In the 6-12 weeks before the race my approach focuses on the long sessions at zone 2/IM race pace. Weekday sessions still include intervals or high intensity but that would now be zone 3/tempo mostly, rather than FTP intervals and above. Zone 3/tempo is where you find yourself on IM race day on hills and headwinds at times which is why I use those type of sessions. I keep the long rides and long runs at aerobic endurance pace specific to what you will hold on race day (65-75% ftp, zone 2 pace).
If you are time crunched and your long rides can only be 2 hours then are you better off sticking to zone 2 or making more intense? I’m not sure, I don’t have any experience with that situation.
Wattie used to have a blog post on the Wattie Ink website about how you might have to dump some masters sessions to get the best IM training. I agree.
I think 400 and 800 yard sets are key to preparing for a 1 to 2 hour swim.
You can still pull threshold up with some speed work and you can still push threshold up with z2 work, but I think your stamina work over the last 12 to 16 weeks should be z3 / race pace heavy.
I am not sure that I would follow any advice from Wattie about swimming though.
400-800 sets are kind of useless for any distance of swim racing. You will just reinforce bad form because you’re never rested enough to use good form. You can get to great IM swim shape off lots of 50’s and 100’s on short rest, but you’re way more focused and applying more force to the water all the time on each stroke than an 800 set. Its just the way it is. The other benefit of short rest higher intensity is you’re just going to raise your overall cardio which can then benefit the other two sports vs putting the head down and going steady in the swim and simulating IM swim race pace. IM swim pace should feel easy.
Tom Evans who won IMC and IMFLa several times and went 8:08 as a 40 year old racing pro and also having his own dentistry practice used to say, "If you want to know if you are over swimming in an Ironman put your head down and breath every 5 strokes and if you are dying for oxygen, you are swimming too hard.
How do you get to breathing every 5 strokes at IM pace feel “easy”. Well you have to kinda swim harder than IM race pace a lot in training.
All the walking that goes on in the last 13 miles by otherwise good runners can be traced to IM over swimming before they also over bike.
Swimming 400’s and 800’s won’t get us there that easily. Give it a try and park the long sets. Also make sure you do a lot of kick sets. Everyone claims that they don’t kick in an IM, but every IM I have been in, people are kicking like maniacs and after that biking at 70% FTP is a massive chore.
Pretty well every swim has lots of meters waaaay above IM race pace (IM swim pace is roughly my warmup swim pace or recovery swim pace…there is still 8-15 hrs to go after the swim) and for the bike other than cooldown or warmup or recovery between intervals, I was always riding above IM race pace. It made IM race pace to T2 feel pretty straightforward.** Running it is pretty hard for your average weekly pace to be much faster than IM pace unless you are absolute front of the pack Kona Podium person and even then it will be pretty close**.
I would think this is exactly the opposite. People jogging/surviving/whatever the marathon are far more likely to be heading out the door at faster than IM pace than people who have the capacity to seriously race it. My N=1 is 3-low off the bike but an average training pace certainly slower than 7min/mile
Hey aren’t you the guy from the ‘I have 12hr a week’ thread?
IRONMAN is about metabolic efficiency at aerobic intensity. Sounds like you are consistently training too hard to efficiently stimulate aerobic development. You are getting some as a byproduct of all of your training, but you are working harder than you need to and not optimally for developing aerobic engine.
To answer your question, all most all my work is z2, most days entirely z2. 1-2 sessions per week total with intervals, usually more sweet spot type intervals, very rarely Tabatas or vo2 type intervals. Only go there enough to hit that system occasionally, but the bread and butter of the week is always z2.
Yep, that’s me. I have 9-12 hours most weeks for training right now (a little less than 4 months out from IMC) and race season has started. I’m doing my best to train hard with the time I have and was curious to know how other people in a similar situation are approaching their training. What is your weekly volume, given that you are training mostly in z2?
Kinda depends doesn’t it? Especially for bike. Stealing the famous TP image below. Being that Z2 is traditionally 65-75% FTP, most athletes should be spending the bulk of their time near IM pace.
I guess I just find it hard to believe that 2 hours of pootling along at IM pace (my bike split last time was 6 hours, so 30 km/h) is really doing anything at all for my fitness when I can hold 38.5 km/h for an hour, 37 km/h for 90 minutes or 36 km/h for two hours. For longer rides (let’s say 4 hours or more) I can see IM pace being a little more challenging. In the last six weeks before my race I should have time to get out for some long rides and I will definitely be including IM pace in those.
Thanks for your reply - that sounds a lot like what I will be doing: intensity and shorter stuff until the last block before the race and then try to up the volume at a lower intensity to be more race-specific.
Sam, I can see you are still looking for validation for your approach to your upcoming ironman. You are strapped for time and plan to almost all of your training at a higher intensity rather than easier.
I won’t steer you away from your approach. Use your past experiences to make future training choices. In the past have you done any IM races off of mostly low intensity long sessions and/or have you tried to train almost all sessions at high intensity for a long course race before?
If you are just curious as to what others do then here is my approach. I train/coach with a balanced approach throughout the off season. A mix of everything to build a well rounded athlete, endurance/tempo/threshold/vo2. In the 6-12 weeks before the race my approach focuses on the long sessions at zone 2/IM race pace. Weekday sessions still include intervals or high intensity but that would now be zone 3/tempo mostly, rather than FTP intervals and above. Zone 3/tempo is where you find yourself on IM race day on hills and headwinds at times which is why I use those type of sessions. I keep the long rides and long runs at aerobic endurance pace specific to what you will hold on race day (65-75% ftp, zone 2 pace).
If you are time crunched and your long rides can only be 2 hours then are you better off sticking to zone 2 or making more intense? I’m not sure, I don’t have any experience with that situation.
Hey you’re a coach and a psychologist! Thanks for your advice, there’s some stuff in there I can definitely use. In answer to your question, I’ve always been a lower volume guy (relative to ST people, not relative to regular people - when my colleagues hear I am training 9 hours a week they are amazed at such “volume”, so it’s all relative). My work and family responsibilities mean that 12 hours is the absolute max I can eke out right now, and in the past it has been the same or lower. I’ve done two IMs (both IMC in Whistler) and was underwhelmed by my performances relative to how well I do at shorter stuff. It seems the longer the distance the further back in the pack I am (and I know that’s because of the way I am training, but with 9 or 10 hours a week, it just feels as though it’s the best choice I can make with the time I have). I am hoping to be able to up the volume from early July onwards (race day is Aug. 28, so that gives me around 6 weeks) and will be sure to include IM pace riding in any long ride I’m able to do.
Pretty well every swim has lots of meters waaaay above IM race pace (IM swim pace is roughly my warmup swim pace or recovery swim pace…there is still 8-15 hrs to go after the swim) and for the bike other than cooldown or warmup or recovery between intervals, I was always riding above IM race pace. It made IM race pace to T2 feel pretty straightforward.** Running it is pretty hard for your average weekly pace to be much faster than IM pace unless you are absolute front of the pack Kona Podium person and even then it will be pretty close**.
I would think this is exactly the opposite. People jogging/surviving/whatever the marathon are far more likely to be heading out the door at faster than IM pace than people who have the capacity to seriously race it. My N=1 is 3-low off the bike but an average training pace certainly slower than 7min/mile
I agree with you. In the past I have struggled along at 10 minute miles in my IM marathons but that feels ridiculously slow when I am running at lunch time. My half marathon time is 1:27 and last week I did a sprint distance tri and went 20:20 for the 5 km trail run at the end, so 10 minute/mile pace feels horrible!
Kinda depends doesn’t it? Especially for bike. Stealing the famous TP image below. Being that Z2 is traditionally 65-75% FTP, most athletes should be spending the bulk of their time near IM pace.
I guess I just find it hard to believe that 2 hours of pootling along at IM pace (my bike split last time was 6 hours, so 30 km/h) is really doing anything at all for my fitness when I can hold 38.5 km/h for an hour, 37 km/h for 90 minutes or 36 km/h for two hours. For longer rides (let’s say 4 hours or more) I can see IM pace being a little more challenging. In the last six weeks before my race I should have time to get out for some long rides and I will definitely be including IM pace in those.
Gotta disagree with this one. If you’re splitting 6hrs that puts your IM pace at 71%. That’s high Z2/low Z3 by most measures.
If you consider that pootling around for 2 hrs then I suspect either you’re racing far too easily or doing training rides far too fast. Most training methods have the bulk of the time spent in Z1-Z2, and big efforts spent in the upper zones. 2 hrs in Z2 definitely won’t feel like a huge effort, but it’s a substantial workout.
One other thing that I’ve noticed is that the linear percentage zones do not always apply linearly. Take someone like Sanders, FTP nearly 360W. His Z2 rides should be at 235ish. A 6 hr split in a good aero position should be around 250FTP, so Z2 rides are closer to 160w. Given that untrained riders can sit comfortably at about 100W, I have a suspicion that the relative effort is still higher for Sanders than our theoretical 250FTP rider.