IM Swim training post shoulder surgery

Triathlon Forum
1

Good day,

I am scheduled for surgery on Nov. 3 to repair a torn rotator cuff and labrum tear on my right shoulder. I searched and read quite a few posts on ST about recovery and looks like lots of good outcome once healed if I follow to the T my doctor’s and PT’s instructions.

I am planning to do my first IM next summer. (Mont-Tremblant) Not looking to KQ at all but to be able to finish in a good time. I am not to worry about the bike or the run as I can worked on that early spring along with some trainer sessions starting Jan. However for the swim, that is where I am not too sure.

I grew up learning to swim but never swam in a structure way. I can swim freestyle but not very efficiently. Right now I can do 2 -3 laps very slowly before I need to stop and catch my breath. I know for fact that my technique sucks and I need to improve on it. From how I breathe, kick, catch… basically back to the whole basic.

So if my recovery goes well and that I am able to start swimming by Feb or latest March, that would give me about 5 month to train to swim the distance. The plan is to swim at least 2 time per week and slowly build up.

I know that everything is possible if you put your mind and hard work to it but I am hesitant/nervous due to the surgery. So before I go and register for the IM, I am seeking advice on folks that have gone through it and somehow some assurance that 5 month to train to swim the distance is enough post-recovery.

Cheers!
Minh

2

If your surgery goes to plan then your goal is do-able. If you don’t do the surgery, you are likely risking your race with this injury. Many athletes have had this surgery on hip and shoulder and returned.

5 months is MORE than enough. Key when you return will be to be patient, to make sure you have great technique to start with, make sure you get strength back in your shoulder with your PT work, and gradually build into your swim volume.

Anna Cleaver

3

I came back from the same surgery about 3 years ago. I was out for about 4 months then got back to swimming. I was fairly bullish with my return on the bike and run but conservative with swimming. Main priority is to do the physio. I didn’t for a month or so cause I thought I was recovering well and I was mistaken. It’s all about restoring strength and range of motion. These need to come back before you push any distance or speed swimming.

Good news is that if you do this then swimming is actually a great way to transition to build strength in the shoulder as long as you take it slow. Also, taking it slow allows you to focus on your stroke technique. Win win.

It’s a long road but very recoverable. Keep focussed but not inpatient.

Good luck.

4

I highly recommend that you get some stroke technique coaching when you get back in the water. Certain bad techniques (e.g., crossing over) are hard on your shoulders (not to mention they are slower!).

5

I had the same surgery in early 2012. I was 58 so I really worried about being ready for IMFL in early Nov. First, I was clear with the surgeon what my goal and timeline was. I chose a PT with a good athletic reputation. Not an outfit that rehabs 70-80 yr old hip and knee replacements. I was religious with my recovery exercises and I didn’t go to the pool until my PT cleared me. I found that running hurt my shoulder more than swimming once I was cleared to resume activity. Either way, you should have plenty of time to get ready for IMMT. I hope to see you up there!

6

My advice would be to focus on developing your kick.

You can actually dramatically improve your swimming without taking a single stroke.

I would recommend adjusting your swim workouts so that they are solely kicking on your side, left side down right side back.
Focus on maintaining proper body position in the water without having to use your arms.
Then when you can start actually swimming again, you’ll be in a much better position, and will put less strain on your newly repaired shoulder.

A very good friend of mine, missed out on the entire 2003 season after shoulder surgery and spent the entire season kicking instead of swimming.
He made his first US National Cut in 2004 and was an NCAA DI All American in 2005.

7

My worry is that you’re starting from zero on swim fitness/technique right now, having surgery and then trying to ramp up to an IM distance swim by next August. If your bike and run fitness is really solid you can probably pull it off but you will need to spend time with an instructor and swim more than 2 times per week. Given your swim background, two times a week won’t build enough fitness to allow you to swim 3,800+ meters and still have gas in the tank for the bike/run.

Good luck with the surgery and recovery. I thought I was going to need the same surgery but the MRI showed it was “just” cuff tendonitis, an inflamed bursa and some small labrum tears (bike crash in August)…still healing from the collarbone break but I’m back in the pool now.

8

I broke my collarbone 14 weeks out from IMAZ.
Nonetheless I went on to set a PR 14 weeks later.
Here is how I did it:

I only took one week off.
The first week of training involved-
10 hrs on bike trainer.
3 hrs up hill walking on treadmill (with arm in sling)
3 hrs 1 arm swimming and kick sets (with arm at side)

I slowly added stress to the run and swim.
After 4 weeks I was running (mostly uphill on treadmill).
After 7 weeks I was swimming with both arms.

Bottom line is that my bike fitness was especially good.
I only missed out on a little running
And really only lost swim strength in one arm.

9

Swimming with broken collarbone:
A week after the accident I could swim with one arm limp at the side and one arm doing the swimming. I could also do kick with both arms at side.
After 5 weeks I started adding occassional (very light strokes) with bad arm. I slowly added force to the movement on my injured side- over several weeks.

I think I went 52 low at IMAZ without pushing too hard on swim.
The broken collar bone reevaluate did not set me back.

10

Thanks everyone for sharing your experience. It gives me good hope that I can do it!

JoelO raised a good point because that exact thought came into my mind as well. Knowing my fitness/technique, I want to approach it like I was starting from ‘zero’. (I am already very lucky that I can swim as I know some really start from no even knowing how to swim at all) I will definitely take some advices from all the post and apply them.

11

I think I went 52 low at IMAZ without pushing too hard on swim.

Dang fish.

12

When I had my shoulder injury (not surgery) and couldn’t swim for 6 weeks, nor normally for 2 month. I found that the “sewing maching” drill that Doug Stern posted here was invaluable. (He had gotten it from Anthony Ervin.) It also seemed help loosen up my tight shoulder. The PT had also worked my butt…er…shoulder off before and after I got in the water. It also helped me correct my cross over. I did a lot of hours of that over a number of weeks.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=782744;search_string=sewing%20machine;#782744

13

It all depends on how bad your injury is. But some of what these people say…is scary.

I had a full rotator cuff tear, surgery on June 1 of this last year. The labrum was noodles, so it was “cleaned up”. Again, mine was real bad and i’ve been WAY ahead of the recovery curve. But let me tell you, this is a LONG road back, and very slow, and very frustrating. I have yet to swim, and I think it will be VERY tough for me once I do. The amount of muscle lost while you’re recovering is HUGE. The atrophy of my shoulder…almost made me sick. I’m planning a half IM in April…and my run and bike will be there (however, you’ll want to see how your arm bends to get back in aero position, as mine is still not right), but swimming will be tough. I’m back into light weights, but I can’t do shoulder presses with 3 lb weights, and dips…forget about it.

This will be an eye opening experience, and you need to expect a tough road back. I think you can get there, but you won’t be happy with the swim power/results. Range of motion will be tough (and very difficult), and getting strength back…is a sonofabitch! I’m rooting for you, and if you have ANY questions or want to talk about it, let me know. I know this was a very tough time for me, but after the first 2 months (which are by far the WORST) you’ll start to see the significant progress and it will give you motivation.

14

I’ll echo what the last poster said - shoulder surgery is TOUGH. I had a “simple” labral tear (tore it using swim paddles at a Masters practice - never using those again), and had surgery in May 2013. I wasn’t able to swim again until July 2014, and even then, it was against the advice of several doctors. Maybe I just had a bad outcome, maybe my PT sucked, or maybe my surgeon screwed up, but it was a very long recovery for me. I can’t imagine how much harder it would have been knowing I had a race on the calendar. I’m not saying you shouldn’t have goals, because you should, but give your body a chance to recover.

I’m also a little worried about your swim fitness/technique. If you have flaws in your stroke, your shoulder is going to feel it. And 2.4 miles is a long way for a beginner, even with perfect shoulders. I’ve been swimming competitively for most of my life, but even I changed my stroke a bit after surgery to alleviate the strain on my shoulder.

I’m not trying to be a downer - just adding to the spectrum of experiences in this thread. The good news is that you WILL get there - but it could be six months, could be a year, could be two years. I’ll never feel like my shoulder is 100% again, but I raced a total of 12.2 open water miles this summer. So not too bad!

Feel free to PM me anytime. Good luck!

15

Look around now for a good swim coach that works with triathletes and adult onset swimmers. If you can only swim 75 yards now, having shoulder surgery and want to do an IM next summer, you will need to use your time when you can swim well. Learning to swim correctly, with proper technique is smart to do early when you start swim training. Easier to make good technique as muscle memory than trying to fix wrong technique later.

It took me about 8 weeks of working with a swim coach when I first started to be able to swim comfortably without stopping every few laps when I started. I did an Oly distance race and was the last swimmer out of the water but felt comfortable the whole time.

16

Good day,

I am scheduled for surgery on Nov. 3 to repair a torn rotator cuff and labrum tear on my right shoulder. I searched and read quite a few posts on ST about recovery and looks like lots of good outcome once healed if I follow to the T my doctor’s and PT’s instructions.

I am planning to do my first IM next summer. (Mont-Tremblant) Not looking to KQ at all but to be able to finish in a good time. I am not to worry about the bike or the run as I can worked on that early spring along with some trainer sessions starting Jan. However for the swim, that is where I am not too sure.

I grew up learning to swim but never swam in a structure way. I can swim freestyle but not very efficiently. Right now I can do 2 -3 laps very slowly before I need to stop and catch my breath. I know for fact that my technique sucks and I need to improve on it. From how I breathe, kick, catch… basically back to the whole basic.

So if my recovery goes well and that I am able to start swimming by Feb or latest March, that would give me about 5 month to train to swim the distance. The plan is to swim at least 2 time per week and slowly build up.

I know that everything is possible if you put your mind and hard work to it but I am hesitant/nervous due to the surgery. So before I go and register for the IM, I am seeking advice on folks that have gone through it and somehow some assurance that 5 month to train to swim the distance is enough post-recovery.

Cheers!
Minh

Minh,

l look at it slightly differently to the other, so please bear with me.
to date it seem like you realistically, from a triathlon point of view, can’t swim, you’re scheduled to have shoulder surgery, and want to enter an Ironman race, and hope to “finish in a good time”.

ok, here’s where I play the devil’s advocate. ARE YOU MAD?
and here’s where I lay the supportive sage…
get your shoulder op done and dusted, focus on the recovery, keep doing some training where and when possible, if and when you can commence swimming, get a coach and slowly start to learn to swim ( at all time focussing on shoulder recovery ), and then, if you feel up to it, enter an event that is doable with the recovery / training that you have done. e.g Olympic or 70.3
and at all times look forward to your maiden Ironman race in 2017…
then, and only then, as you cross the line, will Mike Reilly call to you " You Minh, are an Ironman "

is it worth the risk to do it otherwise? that’s your call.

17

Thank you everyone for you feedback, advices and also keeping me grounded. Surgery is scheduled for tomorrow at 8 so I’ll have a better idea on what was ‘worked’ on which will greatly affect recovery time. (hopefully nothing else will be found that need to be fix) I will also talk to the surgeon about my goal and have his opinion if it is realistic or not.

Completing an IM is something that I wanted to do for a long time but also wanted to put it as a goal for next summer to also motivate me to do everything I can to recover and get stronger in the process. I know it is going to be hard and frustrating but at least I’ll have something to keep me focus. Lots is at play here because at the end of the day, the IM can wait but my need to overcome this hurdle is a must to be there for my family.

Thank you again.

Cheers!
Minh

18

How’s the shoulder feeling now that you are a week out?

I’m going in for shoulder surgery in 2 weeks as well (long story short, not sure of the exact injury, skipped the MRI since we already did rest and PT all summer to no avail and they can figure it out better than an MRI once inside anyway, probably labrum but maybe more).

Originally planned on my first half next summer (and was toying with a full since my friend & training partner is going for it) as a goal, but…based on this and other info have decided to change my approach to be more realistic. I’ve picked two races as options: one is a Half, and one is a (tough) Olympic I did this fall that has a Sprint option as worst-case. This way I still have something motivational to train for and look forward to, but if things aren’t going well, can always back off and do something safer for the shoulder.

TLDR: pick a couple smaller events around the same time as your IM, and only make your choice and register once you are back in the water and have a good idea of your recovery.

Hope you’re feeling well!

19

Hi all,

Just a quick update as I finally got to see my surgeon today for my follow up appointment after 3 weeks. I was told that surgery was successful and he was able to repair my rotator cuff and also did some ‘cleanup/shaving’ from my labrum tear. As of today, my shoulder is feeling stronger by the day and pain is almost all gone. I can now do some basic movement for my hand, wrist and elbow without any issue while making sure that I do not activate any shoulder muscles. At the appointment, he help me move my arm in different position to see my degree of flexibility and it is not that great. Not only it is very stiff but it hurts a lot but he said I am progressing well. PT is schedule to start next Monday so I’ll get to slowly be more active.

I did ask him about swimming and did not get the answer I was seeking for. In a nut shell, I was not cleared to start swimming until 6 months post surgery. He did explain that it was the common time frame given to all patients going through the procedure but he wanted me to understand that if I wanted to make sure that I heal properly, I have to try to follow all the protocols in place for full recovery.

Since my swimming needs a lot of work and that I am basically starting from zero, I need to be more realistic in my IM goal. Therefore I will not be doing IM MT as planned. I am still convince that I can do it but don’t want to jeopardize my full recovery and specially have to go back for another surgery because I rushed it to much. Deep inside I still have this little hope that depending on how I recover by March (with clearance of doc and PT) and that somehow IM MT registration still open I will go for it but for now, I should concentrate on getting better first.

Anyhow thank you to all of you that have chime in. It was very helpful and gave me a good perspective on what I should expect post surgery.

Cheers!
Minh

20

I had shoulder surgery Sept and did Ironman Lake Placid the next July.
The swim went fine - maybe, maybe would have been a cuople of minutes (like 2-3) faster if I had not needed the surgery.
Think I was doing breast and underarm recovery Dec.
March was only aable to swim about 500m freestyle, but from tbdn on whatever I liked.